Loopback Questions No. 2

[ShagLight]

Is it possible to turn a VC button on and off with values from a loopback dimmer. For example, the button would turn on with a dimmer value of 195 or higher, and the button would turn off with a value of 65 or lower.

My reason for wanting to do this is to get an EFX effect as described in the attached diagram. I saw someone else request this as a feature, and I've been wanting to be able to do it for a long time.

I have an idea for a way to do it using loopback if I could control a button with dimmer values.

Thanks!

[BremDjenzzen]

It took me a bit, but I figured out how to do this.
By utilizing custom dimmer curves you can create a sort of toggle for a specific DMX value.
In the example I created 2 toggles, 1 for below 65 and 1 for above 195.
Those toggle the light with a hold function. The only challenge after that was making the light stay on when below 195.
I achieved this by making a function that get turned on by toggle 1 (195) and gets turned of by toggle 2 (65).
This way it stays on when going from 195 -> 65 and stays off when going 65 -> 195.
I hope this is what you were looking for
If you have any questions let me know!

[MichelSliepenbeek]

You forgot to add the Channel Modifiers.

[BremDjenzzen]

Thanks for the note. Didn't know they were separate files

[MichelSliepenbeek]

Never mind. Because you posted the PNG's it was easy to reconstruct them.


If i have more time i'm going to change it a bit so that i can use your solution to turn the lights ON when the moving heads go down and turn them OFF if the heads go up (or maybe use Red to go down and Blue to go Up, or maybe go down with my Moving Head Washes OFF and my Moving Heads Spots ON and vice versa, or .......).

What i found out so far:
- in order to make your lights go on and Off in sync, your Loopback Channels and your Moving Heads need to be in the same EFX.
- if you use "Generic Dimmer" for your Loopback Channels, they will follow the TILT.
So i need to create 2 dummy Fixture Profiles, one for Pan and one for Tilt (don't need 16 bit precision for this, so only 1 coarse channel will do).
That way i can decide whether my Loopback Channels should follow Pan or should Follow Tilt (or maybe both).

The real challenge however is going to be to make it work with all available patterns (not only Line) and also make it to work with "differents sizes" (not to be dependent on fixed values in the Channel modifiers, so basically to detect when the direction changes).

[ShagLight]

That's pretty much what I had in mind. Seems like it would work in circular or other shape EFXs form the pan or tilt channels of the loopback dimmers.

And I was thinking of writing a 2-channel (one for pan and one for tilt) fixture profile, so the EFX knows.

An example of the effect I want is on this video at 15:54 where with movers are doing it tilting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ZfJAF ... ashtonlord

[MichelSliepenbeek]

The text you quoted, is followed by two PNG's and .... the showfile!


In order to be able to follow what it is doing, i added a XY Pad and a Speed dial.

Loopback Toggle - line.qxw

(10.68 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

[MichelSliepenbeek]

Ah, that's nasty.

First ask to attach a showfile (that was already attached) and then remove your post.
It is more mature to admit your mistakes (and maybe apologize).

[ShagLight]

Ah, that's nasty.

First ask to attach a showfile (that was already attached) and then remove your post.
It is more mature to admit your mistakes (and maybe apologize).

Sorry, didn't mean to be nasty. Out of my own stupidity, I saw the attached show file after I posted the request, Sorry about any misunderstanding.

[GGGss]

An example of the effect I want is on this video at 15:54 where with movers are doing it tilting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ZfJAF ... ashtonlord

Lights off when <10, back on again when >127 - but then the in-between positions will be hard to achieve without some logic... if off && pos>127 = on, if on && <10 off

[BremDjenzzen]

I think I now better understand what the goal is.
I'll try to create some demos. It sounds like a fun challenge

[MichelSliepenbeek]

Just an idea:

instead of Pattern = Line, you could use Pattern = Square with Parameters:
Width = 59
Height = 1
X- Offset = 1
Y-Offset = 69
Rotation = 90

That way:
- the Tilt will use the range that Fredje suggested (010 .. 127)
- the Pan will act as an On/Off toggle (dmx(000) and dmx(001). You only need to create a Dummy Fixture Definition with 1 Pan channel to trigger it.

[BremDjenzzen]

I made a new demo.
Here I once again use dimmer curves to detect the edges of a pattern.
It works with al patterns.
The only thing is that you want to have a dummy fixture that has a pattern that is at max size.
This way you have the most control over the specific points you want to have triggers at.
Just set the dimmer curve to be at full at a specific value.
Afterwards you convert the tilt/pan into dimmers that have the curve to filter out your desired value.
I hope my explanation is clear enough.

Example;
https://youtu.be/Ss6w_9Bori8

[BremDjenzzen]

The only thing is that you want to have a dummy fixture that has a pattern that is at max size.

This is not necessarly needed, you could use the same pattern with your dummy fixture.
The thing then is that your dimmer curves have to be verry exact to match the values the pattern puts out.

[BremDjenzzen]

I have another demo where the color changes when going up or down.
Once again using the dimmer curves to detect a position. The making a toggle, converting it to a hold function and utilizing the override of the hold function to force the light to red.

Example;
https://youtu.be/31CFqVzKUtM

[ShagLight]

Just an idea:

instead of Pattern = Line, you could use Pattern = Square with Parameters:
Width = 59
Height = 1
X- Offset = 1
Y-Offset = 69
Rotation = 90

That way:
- the Tilt will use the range that Fredje suggested (010 .. 127)
- the Pan will act as an On/Off toggle (dmx(000) and dmx(001). You only need to create a Dummy Fixture Definition with 1 Pan channel to trigger it.

Hmmm. Very interesting. That would solve the problem of making the range adjustable and also solve the problem of how to make it hold on or off. I'll be playing with all this soon.

[ShagLight]

After thinking about it, I don't think the idea of a square EFX wouldn't work, because you can't have it in the same EFX as say, a tilt or pan EFX.

[ShagLight]

But then again, could run 2 EFXs and once with the same parameters as a collection button?

[MichelSliepenbeek]

... I don't think the idea of a square EFX wouldn't work ...

What you are actually saying is that "you do think the idea of a square would work".
In formula: B = NOT(NOT(A)) is the same as B = A.

Never mind, for most of us English is not our native language.

..... you can't have it in the same EFX as say, a tilt or pan EFX.

You missed the essence here: the Square with those parameters is almost the same as a Line.
There is only 1 click on the Pan when it changes direction. You will not notice this, particularly because the light turns ON and OFF at the same moment.

Have a closer look at the parameters: it says Rotation = 90, so Height = 1 actually affects the Pan movement.
This was only meant to be used for your "Within Temptation" EFX.

But then again, could run 2 EFXs and once with the same parameters as a collection button?

Now you are going in the wrong direction.
If you go back here viewtopic.php?p=72607#p72607, it started with

"in order to make your lights go on and Off in sync, your Loopback Channels and your Moving Heads need to be in the same EFX."

[ShagLight]

... I don't think the idea of a square EFX wouldn't work ...

What you are actually saying is that "you do think the idea of a square would work".
In formula: B = NOT(NOT(A)) is the same as B = A.

Never mind, for most of us English is not our native language.

..... you can't have it in the same EFX as say, a tilt or pan EFX.

You missed the essence here: the Square with those parameters is almost the same as a Line.
There is only 1 click on the Pan when it changes direction. You will not notice this, particularly because the light turns ON and OFF at the same moment.

Have a closer look at the parameters: it says Rotation = 90, so Height = 1 actually affects the Pan movement.
This was only meant to be used for your "Within Temptation" EFX.

But then again, could run 2 EFXs and once with the same parameters as a collection button?

Now you are going in the wrong direction.
If you go back here viewtopic.php?p=72607#p72607, it started with

"in order to make your lights go on and Off in sync, your Loopback Channels and your Moving Heads need to be in the same EFX."

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant to say, I don't think the square pattern would work because you wouldn't be able to have a square pattern in the same EFX as for example, a line or a circle pattern.

And couldn't you run 2 EFXs simultaneously as a collection? That way you could use the square pattern with almost any other pattern.