main feature, programming everything with groups?

[giacomo]

Would it be possible to implements groups into scenes?
We've already groups in v5 but the fixtures are exposed when recording cues, indeed it would be super great if they could be used directly to record scene, as it happens for palettes.
The immense advantage would be that we can change later these groups!
Think about the flexibility of this workflow, for tour or clubs...
You prepare your basic show using groups and on the venue you can start already with something, just update these groups with the new fixtures

EDIT: I've changed the title because later I realized that we can use groups for all the functions.

[giacomo]

Actually it's already possible to record a scene with groups:
you have to create them without selecting anything in the 2d view, by adding an empty scene with the function manager, then editing it and add the groups, intensity palette, color palette etc etc.
Probably at your first attempt you cannot drag a group into the scene list, I had to select first a fixture and then select and drag the group.
Then I could change the group elements and the cue was updated automatically.
I haven't investigate it much, it's a right new find for me and if someone else is interested in this feature please join and help.
regards

[giacomo]

So, probably the actual feature request is to record these group scenes directly in the 2D View, to see live and/or on the screen what we're doing.
Maybe when we select a group, there could be an option to record the scene using the group vs fixtures.

[giacomo]

Dear all, I did some precise tests and the idea it's working.
For the ones interested here a test file:

group-test.qxw

(9.06 KiB) Downloaded 105 times

For an understanding of GROUP CUES importance here a good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq3uedH ... q&index=20

To keep things separate, I'll post my observation here:
http://qlcplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15945

have a good evening.

[giacomo]

Some more tests:
for now only scenes and RGB matrix can refer directly to groups.
EFX:
we should update the EFX to refer also to groups and of course tell the EFX how to spread/offset the group.
Right now when you add a group it exposes the fixtures (as when you record a scene from the 2D View).
Anyway it would be worth it...

Sequences:
I've never used them so I cannot say how it could be implemented this feature,
maybe we could add a global setting to spread the group by the fixture order as it's for RGB matrix?
eg. each single fixture, each 2 fixtures, 3 fixtures etc.
Any suggestion from people using it?

[giacomo]

Another update,
I've tried for my first time tonight the Show Manager and I've read briefly the documentation but honestly I still don't get the usefulness of sequences, at least in v5.
Apart adding some confusion, what is the advantage?
Anyway the good news is that we can use group chasers in Show Manager too.
It's also possible to record sequences with groups (there is a 'Group Sequence" in the example attached) but it seems they're not interesting because anyway you've to change each fixture parameters step by step, they could be useful if they were what other software called once "chaser".
...to insert a group in the sequence you've to drag it from the group tab on the left side, this drag works also when editing scenes and adding palettes...
If the goal it's flexibility then the chaser with groups and palettes it's the answer.
Again: you've programmed your tracks in advance, you arrive in the venue and you update the groups with the new fixtures, you correct your palettes and you're done... wait, almost!
With a better palette system v5 could be ready for the future, you can test it by yourself with the file attached.
Have a good Sunday.

group-cues Show Manager.qxw

(16.71 KiB) Downloaded 79 times

[giacomo]

another good catch:
also palettes with fanning seems to work well with groups, they are applied following the group matrix and the fixture 3d positions (in this example the x position).
surprising v.5 is quite ready to work with groups!
you can try to update the groups or the fanning palettes and the scenes will follow.
@developers:
could it be achievable a flexible palettes system or it's not a plan for v.5?
at this point I believe that an innovative and simpler way could be to allow multiple palettes inside a single scene, as I wrote in another feature request, because the palettes can refer to an abstract parameter, as they're now, not to a real fixture.
a good day!

group-fan.qxw

(9.02 KiB) Downloaded 36 times