Hi, there!
I'm using a Behringer BCF 2000 in a theatre environment.
In the virtual console (VC) I'm using a paged slider matrix with 8 sliders, where each page should represent all the lights in one row.
Every time I switch from design to operate mode, touching f.e. the first fader in the selected page doesn't only move the first slider in that very page, but does move all the first sliders from all pages. Other faders, of course, show an appropriate behavior.
I'm using QLC+ 12.0, now, but this problem is shown ever since I use QLC+ with the Behringer controller. (Maybe version 4.8?)
Never found that too important, as there is a relative easy way to get around this: Switching to operate mode and activating the slider matrix I just have to press "page up" & "page down" and the pages and faders do work as expected… The problem is that sometimes you forget about that workaround and sometimes it's not you who sits in front of the PC running QLC+…
Thanks!
Mitsch
In a light mixers page setup: One fader on one page affects all pages
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mitscherdinger
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mcallegari
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I just tried with a nanoKontrol 2 and it works as expected on 4.12.0.
Switched to operate, raised slider on page 1, went to page 2: slider is at 0.
I think there is some detail you omitted in your report.
Can I have a look at your project ? Or can you create a simple one to reproduce the issue ?
Switched to operate, raised slider on page 1, went to page 2: slider is at 0.
I think there is some detail you omitted in your report.
Can I have a look at your project ? Or can you create a simple one to reproduce the issue ?
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mitscherdinger
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Maybe it has something to do with the Behringer…?
A difference between the nano kontrol and the bcf 2000 is motorized faders, although I really don't know why this could be treated differently for QLC+.
Unfortunately, my equipment is not at home at the moment, but I could send you literally ANY of my projects to get that effect.
Maybe it's the way I'm configuring it? I create a 8-slider slider matrix, bind every virtual slider to the corresponding hardware slider on the Behringer, enable the pages, configure more than one of these and check the "clone first page widget" box. I normally configure two buttons to do the "page up"/"page down" job, additionally. That's it. If I turn to operate mode and move a slider, the corresponding slider on all other pages will move to that exact position, too. If I configure functions on all sliders on all pages, I can immediately see all the lights corresponding to the appropriate sliders on the other pages to lighten up. I have to press "page up"/"page down" first to reach the expected behavior. Unfortunately, if I touched a slider before that "page up"/"page down" trick, it stays on that position until I manually bring them to 0, again.
If I'm looking into the slider matrix' preferences I can see a "(Page [x])" behind the controller input channel. It feels like QLC+ forgets about that "(Page [x])" every time operation mode is activated and only remembers that there are pages configured after switching through another page. (Interestingly, the first page doesn't show a "(Page 1)" behind the controller input channel, but I guess that has nothing to do with my problem.)
A difference between the nano kontrol and the bcf 2000 is motorized faders, although I really don't know why this could be treated differently for QLC+.
Unfortunately, my equipment is not at home at the moment, but I could send you literally ANY of my projects to get that effect.
Maybe it's the way I'm configuring it? I create a 8-slider slider matrix, bind every virtual slider to the corresponding hardware slider on the Behringer, enable the pages, configure more than one of these and check the "clone first page widget" box. I normally configure two buttons to do the "page up"/"page down" job, additionally. That's it. If I turn to operate mode and move a slider, the corresponding slider on all other pages will move to that exact position, too. If I configure functions on all sliders on all pages, I can immediately see all the lights corresponding to the appropriate sliders on the other pages to lighten up. I have to press "page up"/"page down" first to reach the expected behavior. Unfortunately, if I touched a slider before that "page up"/"page down" trick, it stays on that position until I manually bring them to 0, again.
If I'm looking into the slider matrix' preferences I can see a "(Page [x])" behind the controller input channel. It feels like QLC+ forgets about that "(Page [x])" every time operation mode is activated and only remembers that there are pages configured after switching through another page. (Interestingly, the first page doesn't show a "(Page 1)" behind the controller input channel, but I guess that has nothing to do with my problem.)
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mcallegari
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I think this depends on feedbacks then.
Have you tried to disable them just as a test ?
I have a BCF, might try this myself when I have the chance.
Have you tried to disable them just as a test ?
I have a BCF, might try this myself when I have the chance.
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mitscherdinger
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My equipment's back.
If you mean "disable feedback" by unchecking the "Feedback" box in the Input/Output rider: Yes, that kind of fixed it. But once, you activated feedback in a session, it will show the strange behavior - even if you decide to deactivate it, again. It will stay persistent until you reopen your workspace.
I attached a workspace with which I did some investigations with "feedback" on:
My problem only appears if you don't touch the pages of the slider matrix in design mode or after activating operation mode. And you don't have to "page up" AND "page down", just one direction does the trick that my problem will NOT be shown. You can even press down on page 1 (in order to stay on page 1 - given that you've not activated circular scrolling) to prevent it.
If you want to reproduce:
Take a Behringer BCF 2000 (version shown while turning on: 1.10), open QLC+ (*guess* any version of the 4.x series), go to input/output section and activate the BCF2000 for input and feedback, go to virtual console, create a slider matrix, configure the first slider to react to the Behringers first slider with "auto detect", double-click on the edge of the slider matrix and open it's preferences, go to rider "pages", enable pages, set number of pages different to 1 and check the "clone first page widgets" box, hit "OK", activate operation mode(, to be sure: go back to design mode and hit operation mode, again), push the first slider of the Behringer to any value other than 0, hit "page up": You should now see, that the first slider of the second page has the same value as the slider on the first page.
If you mean "disable feedback" by unchecking the "Feedback" box in the Input/Output rider: Yes, that kind of fixed it. But once, you activated feedback in a session, it will show the strange behavior - even if you decide to deactivate it, again. It will stay persistent until you reopen your workspace.
I attached a workspace with which I did some investigations with "feedback" on:
My problem only appears if you don't touch the pages of the slider matrix in design mode or after activating operation mode. And you don't have to "page up" AND "page down", just one direction does the trick that my problem will NOT be shown. You can even press down on page 1 (in order to stay on page 1 - given that you've not activated circular scrolling) to prevent it.
If you want to reproduce:
Take a Behringer BCF 2000 (version shown while turning on: 1.10), open QLC+ (*guess* any version of the 4.x series), go to input/output section and activate the BCF2000 for input and feedback, go to virtual console, create a slider matrix, configure the first slider to react to the Behringers first slider with "auto detect", double-click on the edge of the slider matrix and open it's preferences, go to rider "pages", enable pages, set number of pages different to 1 and check the "clone first page widgets" box, hit "OK", activate operation mode(, to be sure: go back to design mode and hit operation mode, again), push the first slider of the Behringer to any value other than 0, hit "page up": You should now see, that the first slider of the second page has the same value as the slider on the first page.
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PagesTest1.qxw- (18.2 KiB) Downloaded 121 times
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edogawa
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My BCF is at the venue where we are currently performing our opera "Das Totenschiff", therefore I cannot test your file right now. But as a cross-check, maybe you want to test with my attached workspace? I have never observed the behaviour you describe, so it may be worth looking for differences in the widget definitions...
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- Totenschiff.qxw
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damm301
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Hi
Just to confirm that I am seeing the exact same problem, using a Novation Launchpad Mini (and not only with sliders, also with buttons)
With several page with different controls (midi-controlled buttons, faders), each page activated/switched using a external Novation Launchpad, only works properly if you initially, switch pages right after starting it.
If you don't, then any external midi control (Slider or button) will activate/modify the virtual console elements on *all* pages in parallel
This is present both on 4.11.x and 4.12
Just to confirm that I am seeing the exact same problem, using a Novation Launchpad Mini (and not only with sliders, also with buttons)
With several page with different controls (midi-controlled buttons, faders), each page activated/switched using a external Novation Launchpad, only works properly if you initially, switch pages right after starting it.
If you don't, then any external midi control (Slider or button) will activate/modify the virtual console elements on *all* pages in parallel
This is present both on 4.11.x and 4.12
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mitscherdinger
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@edogawa: Same problem with your workspace.
So, let's check, what's the difference. Maybe OS-related? I'm using Debian Testing.
@damm301: Thanks for reporting!
So, let's check, what's the difference. Maybe OS-related? I'm using Debian Testing.
@damm301: Thanks for reporting!
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edogawa
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My systems are:
1. Two Laptops and one PC, all running current or not too old openSUSE Tumbleweed (snapshot system to add stability to an otherwise rolling release), KDE5/Plasma Desktop.
2. RPi, either with Massimo's image, or a current and updated Raspbian Stretch running LxQt Desktop, and a self-built QLC+ 4.12.0 deb (branched in my OBS home project from Massimo's QLC+ project).
ATM the BCF2k is at the theater venue, and tonight is our last performance, tomorrow we strike and transport off there, so after that I can set up and test on my other machines here at home. All my machines also have some sort of Windows too, either 8.1 or 10, but I rarely ever boot into that OS... which would make seven systems to test including Massimo's image.
Just yesterday I tried to reproduce your issue in the theater, and wasn't able to... I booted up, started QLC+, loaded my workspace, switched to Run mode, moved a slider on the BCF2k and turned pages, all other pages showed the fader at zero...
1. Two Laptops and one PC, all running current or not too old openSUSE Tumbleweed (snapshot system to add stability to an otherwise rolling release), KDE5/Plasma Desktop.
2. RPi, either with Massimo's image, or a current and updated Raspbian Stretch running LxQt Desktop, and a self-built QLC+ 4.12.0 deb (branched in my OBS home project from Massimo's QLC+ project).
ATM the BCF2k is at the theater venue, and tonight is our last performance, tomorrow we strike and transport off there, so after that I can set up and test on my other machines here at home. All my machines also have some sort of Windows too, either 8.1 or 10, but I rarely ever boot into that OS... which would make seven systems to test including Massimo's image.
Just yesterday I tried to reproduce your issue in the theater, and wasn't able to... I booted up, started QLC+, loaded my workspace, switched to Run mode, moved a slider on the BCF2k and turned pages, all other pages showed the fader at zero...
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mitscherdinger
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Wow! Amazing and odd.
I was using QLC+ with at least 4 laptops, all debian based OS, 3 Thinkpads (R60, R61 and T410) and one Dell Netbook, all Intel CPU - and I can't remember that one of them DIDN'T show the bahavior I described.
That makes me wonder, what's my media workstation (Intel core i3, latest generation) is going to do…
Very interesting…
I was using QLC+ with at least 4 laptops, all debian based OS, 3 Thinkpads (R60, R61 and T410) and one Dell Netbook, all Intel CPU - and I can't remember that one of them DIDN'T show the bahavior I described.
That makes me wonder, what's my media workstation (Intel core i3, latest generation) is going to do…
Very interesting…
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mitscherdinger
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I made a test on my media workstation and experienced the same issue as described in this thread.
Just to make sure, we are using the same basis, @edogawa: Did you use feedback with your BCF?
Just to make sure, we are using the same basis, @edogawa: Did you use feedback with your BCF?
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edogawa
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I use the BCF in normal mode (not MCP mode), and of course I engaged feedback to have my faders move, encoders displaying correct levels in their LED light circles and all that.
I'll unpack my BCF in a minute and run a few tests here on different laptops, QLC versions (I got back another machine from repair yesterday, that was broken since 1 1/2 years, with different QLC 4.10.x versions installed in Linux and Win10) and OSes.
I'll unpack my BCF in a minute and run a few tests here on different laptops, QLC versions (I got back another machine from repair yesterday, that was broken since 1 1/2 years, with different QLC 4.10.x versions installed in Linux and Win10) and OSes.
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mitscherdinger
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edogawa
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I just tested, and created the attached new workspace on this machine, in openSUSE Tumbleweed at state of september 2018, but with a ~2 year old QLC+-4.10.6 GIT version.
Cannot reproduce. The faders were mapped to the BCF sliders and dimmer channels in level mode, before creating the pages.
I enter run mode, move the first fader to some level, page right, the fader flies to 0 as does the screen slider. Same for page 4 and 3 when paging left.
Second test, on my main laptop, in Windows 10 which I rarely boot otherwise, QLC 4.11.0, I transferred the same file, adjusted IO connections, feedback and profile, entered run mode and again, can't reproduce it.
I could go on but I doubt I'll get different results, I've in fact never seen this happen... OTOH I own the BCF since 2 years, but haven't used it at all before this last opera project in October (except checking out how it works and what it can do after buying it).
Cannot reproduce. The faders were mapped to the BCF sliders and dimmer channels in level mode, before creating the pages.
I enter run mode, move the first fader to some level, page right, the fader flies to 0 as does the screen slider. Same for page 4 and 3 when paging left.
Second test, on my main laptop, in Windows 10 which I rarely boot otherwise, QLC 4.11.0, I transferred the same file, adjusted IO connections, feedback and profile, entered run mode and again, can't reproduce it.
I could go on but I doubt I'll get different results, I've in fact never seen this happen... OTOH I own the BCF since 2 years, but haven't used it at all before this last opera project in October (except checking out how it works and what it can do after buying it).
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- BCF2k-slider_matrix-pages_test.qxw
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mitscherdinger
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GGGss
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I have a hunch ..
Are the two sliders (on the 2 pages) in level mode & controlling the same fixture channel?
(if false: search further)
(If true: then monitoring function kicks in)
Are the two sliders (on the 2 pages) in level mode & controlling the same fixture channel?
(if false: search further)
(If true: then monitoring function kicks in)
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore
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edogawa
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@GGGss: I also thought along that line but then again: only this test file has same channels in level mode, on different pages. My real show file controls different dimmers on the four pages, and didn't work for him either...
@mitscherdinger: another thought, whats the firmware version in your BCF? mine shows 1.10, you can see the number for a short time right after switching on the unit...
It seems the latest existing is 1.10, and some years ago there was a "driver update" available at http://www.behringer.com/_software/bcf2000_1-10.zip, but that file doesn't exist anymore, as the url redirects to the new Behringer site at musictribe.com.
EDIT: Oh by searching a bit more I just found the latest firmware in the user files section of BC Manager etc. website: https://mountainutilities.eu/userfiles/b-control/4724
@mitscherdinger: another thought, whats the firmware version in your BCF? mine shows 1.10, you can see the number for a short time right after switching on the unit...
It seems the latest existing is 1.10, and some years ago there was a "driver update" available at http://www.behringer.com/_software/bcf2000_1-10.zip, but that file doesn't exist anymore, as the url redirects to the new Behringer site at musictribe.com.
EDIT: Oh by searching a bit more I just found the latest firmware in the user files section of BC Manager etc. website: https://mountainutilities.eu/userfiles/b-control/4724
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mitscherdinger
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Nope. As I already descibed in my third post of this thread, you can even take an empty slider matrix with nothing else configured than the remote control by the midi controller.
I also thought in that direction, but my firmware is identical to yours. (See my third post, again.)
Okay: Provided, noone's doin' anything wrong while trying to reproduce my weird experience - and I can hardly think that this can be the case, anymore - there's not much left for checking:
* We used the same MIDI controller with the same firmware version.
* We changed our workspaces, made sure we all use the feedback feature.
* We used the same version of QLC+ and made tests with other versions to make sure, our different experiences are persistent.
Only thing that differs is the OS. Okay, Raspbian IS a Debian derivative, but it's another architecture. That is why I'm interested in damm301's OS.
Another thought would be building my own version of QLC+. I've always used the deb packages from the OBS linked by the QLC+ Website. Although I know it's made for Ubuntu users I'm using it for Debian Testing. Shouldn't be a problem, but: who knows…? Maybe the problem is build into the OBS packages, only?
I guess, there is just one way to find out…
Greets! And many thanks that more and more people join this thread and make suggestions to nail down this issue!
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damm301
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I'm using Raspbian on a RPI3mitscherdinger wrote: ↑Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:27 pm
Only thing that differs is the OS. Okay, Raspbian IS a Debian derivative, but it's another architecture. That is why I'm interested in damm301's OS.
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mitscherdinger
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Man, that totally destroys my theory about the OS dependent issue.
It will take some time for me to build QLC+ by myself, but in the meantime the people participating in this thread could write if they're building their own QLC+ or if they took a prebuild package (and from where)…