Hey guys,
I'm thinking of buying a MIDI-controller. I have a budget of around €115 ($125) which would allow me to buy something like a KORG NanoKontrol (budget option) or, my preference, an AKAI APC Mini Mk2. I know these have been used for some time here. Do you guys recommend them? I am mainly using buttons in my virtual console so the APC Mini stands out to me (as the couple of sliders can then be used for dimmers). And the price of about €95 is very appealing.
Or is there an alternative that I might not have considered?
Thanks in advance!
Arnout
MIDI controller recommendations?
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MichelSliepenbeek
- Posts: 504
- Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:24 am
- Location: Nederland
- Real Name: Michel Sliepenbeek
To avoid a possible disappointment i suggest you read these posts:
viewtopic.php?t=16044
viewtopic.php?t=16706
The Akai APC mini MK1 works fine with QLC+ (i can tell you from experience, because i own one), but for the 8 x 8 matrix buttons you can only use colors Red, Yellow, Green and White, where for each color you have 2 options: Full or blinking.
As the MK1 only uses one Midi Channel you can use Feedback on all your buttons (also the buttons from the top row and those on the right, although they only have one color).
For the MK2 version, the 8 x 8 matrix buttons are RGB, so you can use many more colors and you also have 6 levels of brightness as wel as different modes of Blinking, but Akai (together with Ableton) have achieved this by giving their own interpretation to the MIDI format. Unfortunately they did this in a way that is not supported by the QLC midi plugin.
If you want to use all buttons and sliders you need to set the Mk2 up for Midi Channel 1, but then you have to accept that the buttons are lit very Dim.
If you want full brightness you have to set up the MK2 for Midi Channel 6 but then you can only use the 8 x 8 matrix. The buttons on top and on the right, as well as the sliders will not work (because they are on Midi Channel 1).
As the posts on top show, there are workarounds possible, but it will require extra software and "some extra work".
For me this was a reason not to buy the MK2.
For your information: now i use an Elation Midicon MK1 for sliders, encoders and the Touch Buttons (which are only on the Midicon MK1) and a Novation Launchpad MK2 for Colored Buttons (and accept that i cannot get them to blink).
viewtopic.php?t=16044
viewtopic.php?t=16706
The Akai APC mini MK1 works fine with QLC+ (i can tell you from experience, because i own one), but for the 8 x 8 matrix buttons you can only use colors Red, Yellow, Green and White, where for each color you have 2 options: Full or blinking.
As the MK1 only uses one Midi Channel you can use Feedback on all your buttons (also the buttons from the top row and those on the right, although they only have one color).
For the MK2 version, the 8 x 8 matrix buttons are RGB, so you can use many more colors and you also have 6 levels of brightness as wel as different modes of Blinking, but Akai (together with Ableton) have achieved this by giving their own interpretation to the MIDI format. Unfortunately they did this in a way that is not supported by the QLC midi plugin.
If you want to use all buttons and sliders you need to set the Mk2 up for Midi Channel 1, but then you have to accept that the buttons are lit very Dim.
If you want full brightness you have to set up the MK2 for Midi Channel 6 but then you can only use the 8 x 8 matrix. The buttons on top and on the right, as well as the sliders will not work (because they are on Midi Channel 1).
As the posts on top show, there are workarounds possible, but it will require extra software and "some extra work".
For me this was a reason not to buy the MK2.
For your information: now i use an Elation Midicon MK1 for sliders, encoders and the Touch Buttons (which are only on the Midicon MK1) and a Novation Launchpad MK2 for Colored Buttons (and accept that i cannot get them to blink).
A QLC Workspace is like a Bob Ross painting: "it's your world, you can create whatever you want!"
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aoltype
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:07 pm
- Real Name: Arnout
Hey Michel (Goedemorgen!),
Thank you for your feedback. I indeed read about the channel 7 (right?) thing. I have a feeling a 64 button grid is well enough for me. The feedback is nice, but I've been using my laptop keyboard to control my Virtual Console for a while now so I think I'll be able to do without the feedback if truly necessary.
Are you saying the sliders and the top and right buttons won't give feedback, or they won't work at all (i.e. not as input either)? The topics seem to be telling me it's just the feedback. Not necessarily a dealbreaker, as I said, but would be nice if they would at least work without the feedback.
Either way it's gonna require me to put some time into starting to understand MIDI and the QLC+ plugin. I've experimented with using my Pioneer DDJ-200 DJ console as a midi device and that seemed to work (although jittery), this one will actually require a lot of research and experimenting. It seems one QLC forum member has already given some clues as to how to fix this anyway.
That Elation Midicon Mk1 looks awesome. Absolutely don't have the money for it tho xD.
Thanks for your help!
Arnout
Thank you for your feedback. I indeed read about the channel 7 (right?) thing. I have a feeling a 64 button grid is well enough for me. The feedback is nice, but I've been using my laptop keyboard to control my Virtual Console for a while now so I think I'll be able to do without the feedback if truly necessary.
Are you saying the sliders and the top and right buttons won't give feedback, or they won't work at all (i.e. not as input either)? The topics seem to be telling me it's just the feedback. Not necessarily a dealbreaker, as I said, but would be nice if they would at least work without the feedback.
Either way it's gonna require me to put some time into starting to understand MIDI and the QLC+ plugin. I've experimented with using my Pioneer DDJ-200 DJ console as a midi device and that seemed to work (although jittery), this one will actually require a lot of research and experimenting. It seems one QLC forum member has already given some clues as to how to fix this anyway.
That Elation Midicon Mk1 looks awesome. Absolutely don't have the money for it tho xD.
Thanks for your help!
Arnout
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MichelSliepenbeek
- Posts: 504
- Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:24 am
- Location: Nederland
- Real Name: Michel Sliepenbeek
Arnout,
As i did not buy the Akai APC Mini MK2, i don't have any experience with it, i can only tell you how i read it.
First of all, to avoid confusion, within MIDI there are "two worlds": in one world they adress the Midi channels from 00 to 15, in the other world they use 01 to 16.
As Akai uses 00 to 15 and QLC uses 01 to 16, you get the brightest output on the pads on channel 6 (if you start counting from 0) or channel 7 (if you start counting from 1).
If you check this document https://cdn.inmusicbrands.com/akai/atta ... 20v1.0.pdf, and go to the last page you can read:
So as long as you use midi channel 1 (in QLC, which is 0 on the Akai) you can receive input from all the buttons and sliders.
The problem is that QLC only sends FeedBack on the same channel where you receive your input from, meaning your Buttons on the Akai will only light up very dim.
To solve this you either need to find a way to change the Akai to output on channel 6 (which is channel 7 in QLC) or you need to find a way to change the feedbacks from QLC (which could be done with additional software like Midi Translator from Bome Software: https://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator).
It might be that you can change the set up of the Akai by using SYSEX messages, but then again QLC can only send one SYSEX message as an initialisation (not as feedback).
If other QLC users have found Different solutions i hope they will react on your post and explain how they do it.
By the way: this problem is not typical for QLC, while Googling i found that in Daslight users are also struggling with this issue: https://forum.daslight.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8215
As i did not buy the Akai APC Mini MK2, i don't have any experience with it, i can only tell you how i read it.
First of all, to avoid confusion, within MIDI there are "two worlds": in one world they adress the Midi channels from 00 to 15, in the other world they use 01 to 16.
As Akai uses 00 to 15 and QLC uses 01 to 16, you get the brightest output on the pads on channel 6 (if you start counting from 0) or channel 7 (if you start counting from 1).
If you check this document https://cdn.inmusicbrands.com/akai/atta ... 20v1.0.pdf, and go to the last page you can read:
If you check the QLC Input Profile for the Akai APC Mini mk2 (QXI file) you only find the channel numbers 49 .. 251, so QLC only expects input on Midi Channel 1 (for Midi channel 2 the Channel numbers would be 4145 .. 4347, and so on).The eight Channel Faders (1-8) and single Master Fader (9) are designed to interact with the various controls
of the Ableton Live software. These faders will each send a MIDI CC# on USB Port 0.
So as long as you use midi channel 1 (in QLC, which is 0 on the Akai) you can receive input from all the buttons and sliders.
The problem is that QLC only sends FeedBack on the same channel where you receive your input from, meaning your Buttons on the Akai will only light up very dim.
To solve this you either need to find a way to change the Akai to output on channel 6 (which is channel 7 in QLC) or you need to find a way to change the feedbacks from QLC (which could be done with additional software like Midi Translator from Bome Software: https://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator).
It might be that you can change the set up of the Akai by using SYSEX messages, but then again QLC can only send one SYSEX message as an initialisation (not as feedback).
If other QLC users have found Different solutions i hope they will react on your post and explain how they do it.
By the way: this problem is not typical for QLC, while Googling i found that in Daslight users are also struggling with this issue: https://forum.daslight.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8215
A QLC Workspace is like a Bob Ross painting: "it's your world, you can create whatever you want!"
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aoltype
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:07 pm
- Real Name: Arnout
Hi Michel,
Thanks for the elaborate response, but I'm not entirely certain I understand. I mean, I understand what you are saying and what the possible solutions are, but I still don't know whether the sliders and side buttons simply don't work at all, or just don't get any feedback. From your response I think I'm gathering the former.
My second question is; would you rather recommend the Novation Launchpad Mini mk3? I don't care all that much about blinking buttons and I guess the sliders are more of a gimmick or a futureproof thing than something I genuinely need (right now, I have all my dimmers assigned to a key anyway, to put them at 100).
The price is the same anyway. If it saves me a long time trying to understand midi just so I can use the sliders, I might aswell just do without them.
Thanks for the elaborate response, but I'm not entirely certain I understand. I mean, I understand what you are saying and what the possible solutions are, but I still don't know whether the sliders and side buttons simply don't work at all, or just don't get any feedback. From your response I think I'm gathering the former.
My second question is; would you rather recommend the Novation Launchpad Mini mk3? I don't care all that much about blinking buttons and I guess the sliders are more of a gimmick or a futureproof thing than something I genuinely need (right now, I have all my dimmers assigned to a key anyway, to put them at 100).
The price is the same anyway. If it saves me a long time trying to understand midi just so I can use the sliders, I might aswell just do without them.
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MichelSliepenbeek
- Posts: 504
- Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:24 am
- Location: Nederland
- Real Name: Michel Sliepenbeek
If you use midi channel 1 (in QLC, which is 0 on the Akai) all sliders and all side buttons do work, and you also get feedback (be aware that feedback on sliders only makes sense if you have motorised faders 
).
The only problem is that everything is very dim.
Don't ask me which one to buy, none of those midi controllers are perfect for running lights (as they all are specifically designed to work with Ableton or with DAW software).
What you could do is buy one on-line (Bax shop), try it out for a few days and send it back in time (as there are no shops anymore that have stock and personel that can give you advice, that is probably the best thing to do nowadays). Or otherwise buy it second hand (Marktplaats) and sell it again, if you get bored with it (that's how i do it
).
If you want to have an impression on how to set up a KORG NanoKontrol, you can wath this video: https://youtu.be/OoRkQamAMdE?feature=shared
If you already own a tablet and considering you are not familiar with Midi yet, i suggest you also have a look at OSC.
You could check those vids: https://youtu.be/AtVj61ShJ2o?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/UH47jwnCxBo?feature=shared
).The only problem is that everything is very dim.
Don't ask me which one to buy, none of those midi controllers are perfect for running lights (as they all are specifically designed to work with Ableton or with DAW software).
What you could do is buy one on-line (Bax shop), try it out for a few days and send it back in time (as there are no shops anymore that have stock and personel that can give you advice, that is probably the best thing to do nowadays). Or otherwise buy it second hand (Marktplaats) and sell it again, if you get bored with it (that's how i do it
).If you want to have an impression on how to set up a KORG NanoKontrol, you can wath this video: https://youtu.be/OoRkQamAMdE?feature=shared
If you already own a tablet and considering you are not familiar with Midi yet, i suggest you also have a look at OSC.
You could check those vids: https://youtu.be/AtVj61ShJ2o?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/UH47jwnCxBo?feature=shared
A QLC Workspace is like a Bob Ross painting: "it's your world, you can create whatever you want!"
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GGGss
- Posts: 2732
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- Location: Belgium
- Real Name: Fredje Gallon
Try to find a 2nd hand midicon - the most buttons for 1$ (and useable not only on QLC+). You will have to create an input profile though ... mine is incomplete...
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore
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aoltype
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:07 pm
- Real Name: Arnout
Hi everyone,
Just thought i'd give an update. I did end up buying the APC Mini Mk2 (even a B-stock one on amazon, for €80), thinking I could probably find my way around the MIDI Yoke and MIDI-OX software. This turned out both easy and complicated, for some reason I couldn't get the software to receive output from QLC. Then I just tried connecting the APC by itself and selecting channel 7. I don't know what happened, but it just works completely fine. I might have misunderstood Michel in this topic, but I really don't see an issue. The only thing that doesn't work is the feedback for the special buttons (the ones on the side and below the 8x8 pad). Even in channel 7, the sliders work and all buttons work, at least for input. I just have to do without feedback for some smaller insignificant buttons - I figure I'll use them for the movement of my moving heads.
I ended up asking chatGPT to help me translate the hex codes so I now have an Excel document which shows the colours along with the required feedback code (hmu if you need that).
All in all, I think the Mk2 has caught some unnecessary flack, it works perfectly except for some small feedback issues.
If you have any questions feel free to ask, I'm not sure if I'll see your response but here's to hoping.
Arnout
Just thought i'd give an update. I did end up buying the APC Mini Mk2 (even a B-stock one on amazon, for €80), thinking I could probably find my way around the MIDI Yoke and MIDI-OX software. This turned out both easy and complicated, for some reason I couldn't get the software to receive output from QLC. Then I just tried connecting the APC by itself and selecting channel 7. I don't know what happened, but it just works completely fine. I might have misunderstood Michel in this topic, but I really don't see an issue. The only thing that doesn't work is the feedback for the special buttons (the ones on the side and below the 8x8 pad). Even in channel 7, the sliders work and all buttons work, at least for input. I just have to do without feedback for some smaller insignificant buttons - I figure I'll use them for the movement of my moving heads.
I ended up asking chatGPT to help me translate the hex codes so I now have an Excel document which shows the colours along with the required feedback code (hmu if you need that).
All in all, I think the Mk2 has caught some unnecessary flack, it works perfectly except for some small feedback issues.
If you have any questions feel free to ask, I'm not sure if I'll see your response but here's to hoping.
Arnout