After rehearsing one day with v.5 for real, the most annoying issue I've noticed it's that 2d remembers the values used before and it's really bad during a live show.
When you're live and you want / need to change a scene or prepare a new one, you get always some ultra disturbing jumps - intensity, position, color etc etc - on the stage, it's really a pity.
please and thank in advance.
please allow the 2D widgets to update with the selection
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giacomo
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Yesterday I had a full v5 day and I'll try to explain better this issue because is one of the most annoying experience in v5, more than the crashes for me.
eg. you want to correct the positions of several fixtures in a scene:
in the 2d view you select the first one and after correcting it you select the next >> the position widget remembers the data used from the first one and you're obliged to correct the second fixture starting from these wrong values, every time you want to adjust something you've to start from scratch.
If you're on tour and you've to correct 30/40 cues you really start to get annoyed, especially when working together with the artists: the scene is almost good but they ask to modify a tiny bit just the focusing, your lights start jumping around the stage and everybody get distracted, they're right, they don't understand why it's not possible to correct gently a focusing.
The same happens for all the parameters in 2d view,
so it would be a great improvement if these parameters can update with the selection.
It's really a pity that in 2d you select a fixture and all the parameters displayed are wrong...
eg. you want to correct the positions of several fixtures in a scene:
in the 2d view you select the first one and after correcting it you select the next >> the position widget remembers the data used from the first one and you're obliged to correct the second fixture starting from these wrong values, every time you want to adjust something you've to start from scratch.
If you're on tour and you've to correct 30/40 cues you really start to get annoyed, especially when working together with the artists: the scene is almost good but they ask to modify a tiny bit just the focusing, your lights start jumping around the stage and everybody get distracted, they're right, they don't understand why it's not possible to correct gently a focusing.
The same happens for all the parameters in 2d view,
so it would be a great improvement if these parameters can update with the selection.
It's really a pity that in 2d you select a fixture and all the parameters displayed are wrong...
Last edited by giacomo on Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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GGGss
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This is really bad; the engine should first call the existing values when you select a fixture.
This will allow you to do gentle and little tweaks.
IMHO A very much must have!
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore
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mcallegari
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I already thought about this and there is a case that needs to be clarified. That is why I haven't implemented a solution yet.
Imagine you have 10 fixtures.
Select the first 3 from the left. Set dimmer to 80%.
Deselect all.
Now select the last 7. Set dimmer to 30%.
Deselect all.
Select all.
Which value should the dimmer tool show? 30% or 80%?
Imagine you have 10 fixtures.
Select the first 3 from the left. Set dimmer to 80%.
Deselect all.
Now select the last 7. Set dimmer to 30%.
Deselect all.
Select all.
Which value should the dimmer tool show? 30% or 80%?
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giacomo
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Hi Massimo, the average value?
or if not possible the last value in the selection order? it's important to know what value is displayed.
Your question reminded me an important feature:
in case of a multiple selection, would it be possible to apply to each fixture the delta value?
eg. from your example: if I rise the displayed intensity by 10%
the first 3 fixtures get the dimmer @ 90%
the last 7 fixtures get the dimmer @ 40%
If I want to set the same value for all the selection, I can rise the intensity @ 100%, or 0 % and the fixtures get aligned, then I choose the desired value.
This "delta" feature would help a lot when in need to quickly modify the intensities of a programmed show, as well for positions, beams, and why not for color shifting...
or if not possible the last value in the selection order? it's important to know what value is displayed.
Your question reminded me an important feature:
in case of a multiple selection, would it be possible to apply to each fixture the delta value?
eg. from your example: if I rise the displayed intensity by 10%
the first 3 fixtures get the dimmer @ 90%
the last 7 fixtures get the dimmer @ 40%
If I want to set the same value for all the selection, I can rise the intensity @ 100%, or 0 % and the fixtures get aligned, then I choose the desired value.
This "delta" feature would help a lot when in need to quickly modify the intensities of a programmed show, as well for positions, beams, and why not for color shifting...
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mcallegari
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I have implemented this change on dimmer tool and position tool, including mixed/relative values.
As suspected, this was quite an effort to take so it needs to be tested a bit.
I can add this logic also to beam tool, but not to presets and colors.
As suspected, this was quite an effort to take so it needs to be tested a bit.
I can add this logic also to beam tool, but not to presets and colors.
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giacomo
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Great news Massimo, this is a good step in usability :)
I suggest to add this logic as well to the beam tool, it has the same unpleasant issue and indeed it will be quite useful to zoom in/out using the delta values.
It seems right that these physical attributes behave in a similar way.
So, why not the color tool?
At least the value updated by selection...
Is it a technical difficulty or a choice?
Right now, the old color is displayed and if you want to modify gently a new selection you've to go in the DMX View, then move each slider at time, without saying that in the 2D you should know the original rgb values.
In this scenario it becomes a long process to make adjustment of scenes or during a live session.
More over, if you open the color tool while in "Basic" or "Filters" tab, the old color is applied automatically when you switch to the RGB tab.
The RGB Tab could behave like the fore mentioned logic, often there is the need to add/subtract some quantities from the general tint.
(or experiment with color shifting...)
When we need a standard color there are already the "Basic" or "Filters" Tabs.
What do you think?
Thanks.
I suggest to add this logic as well to the beam tool, it has the same unpleasant issue and indeed it will be quite useful to zoom in/out using the delta values.
It seems right that these physical attributes behave in a similar way.
So, why not the color tool?
At least the value updated by selection...
Is it a technical difficulty or a choice?
Right now, the old color is displayed and if you want to modify gently a new selection you've to go in the DMX View, then move each slider at time, without saying that in the 2D you should know the original rgb values.
In this scenario it becomes a long process to make adjustment of scenes or during a live session.
More over, if you open the color tool while in "Basic" or "Filters" tab, the old color is applied automatically when you switch to the RGB tab.
The RGB Tab could behave like the fore mentioned logic, often there is the need to add/subtract some quantities from the general tint.
(or experiment with color shifting...)
When we need a standard color there are already the "Basic" or "Filters" Tabs.
What do you think?
Thanks.
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GGGss
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- Real Name: Fredje Gallon
I follow the logic but I'm sceptic once color wheels or color gobo with CMY mixing gets involved.
But lets stay on topic.
If you select a fixture in 2D, the engine should call the values into the programmer and the operator should be able to tweak those values. When selecting multiple fixtures, the opposed solution would work nicely.
But lets stay on topic.
If you select a fixture in 2D, the engine should call the values into the programmer and the operator should be able to tweak those values. When selecting multiple fixtures, the opposed solution would work nicely.
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore
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giacomo
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dear Fredjie,
v5 is not going to be a super console and we're simply trying to improve v5 usability, we need easy solutions/compromises.
All the software normally will add/subtract rgb values form a selection and we're speaking about the RGB Color tool here, you refer to the Color Wheels and Gobos... What do you want to do?
Why would you select together rgb + cmy + colored gobo fixtures? Even some professional console will fail in this case.
Can you elaborate better your suggestion?
I like the idea to shift the color of a group of fixtures, example:
I have a scene where identical fixtures have different rgb values to compensate the real color output, or because I like a color shade, with this solution I can delta-shift the rgb parameters without the need to correct one by one each slider.
v5 is not going to be a super console and we're simply trying to improve v5 usability, we need easy solutions/compromises.
All the software normally will add/subtract rgb values form a selection and we're speaking about the RGB Color tool here, you refer to the Color Wheels and Gobos... What do you want to do?
Why would you select together rgb + cmy + colored gobo fixtures? Even some professional console will fail in this case.
Can you elaborate better your suggestion?
I like the idea to shift the color of a group of fixtures, example:
I have a scene where identical fixtures have different rgb values to compensate the real color output, or because I like a color shade, with this solution I can delta-shift the rgb parameters without the need to correct one by one each slider.
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giacomo
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hi Massimo,
I've found that also the 3d view doesn't update the position and rotation of the fixtures after selecting a mesh > and for the mesh it never displays the position/rotation/scale.
More, the mesh stays selected and when you move a fixture everything goes to the up-left corner. (at least in Gnome)
Here an example with the mesh used:
## you've to change the file name "mesh.txt" to "mesh.stl" for qlc+ to load it, I couldn't attach it with its original extension ##
Something similar happens in 2d View after selecting the mesh: the rotation is not displayed anymore.
And to finish,
in 2d View the gel color is never showed as well.
regards
I've found that also the 3d view doesn't update the position and rotation of the fixtures after selecting a mesh > and for the mesh it never displays the position/rotation/scale.
More, the mesh stays selected and when you move a fixture everything goes to the up-left corner. (at least in Gnome)
Here an example with the mesh used:
group_cues.qxw- (13.21 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
- mesh.txt
- (18.83 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
Something similar happens in 2d View after selecting the mesh: the rotation is not displayed anymore.
And to finish,
in 2d View the gel color is never showed as well.
regards
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giacomo
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- Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 6:17 pm
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Goodmorning,
maybe a good news, I still haven't tried it yet,
I've just rewatched the end of this old video "update #3.2"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UhT793fTw
where it shows how to "dump on an existing scene"...
I wasn't aware of this and if it can work also for the 2D View update selection, this would answer this important feature request:
viewtopic.php?t=15661
and it would be a great step... :)
maybe a good news, I still haven't tried it yet,
I've just rewatched the end of this old video "update #3.2"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UhT793fTw
where it shows how to "dump on an existing scene"...
I wasn't aware of this and if it can work also for the 2D View update selection, this would answer this important feature request:
viewtopic.php?t=15661
and it would be a great step... :)