RGBWW Matrix

[HarryFerg]

Hi

When adding a matrix, there is no option for RGBWW (RGB, Cool White, Warm White)

Can this be added?

Thank you

[edogawa]

It's a pity, but as far as I know QLC+'s color engine only works on R,G,B or C,M,Y channels.

A more powerful engine that could handle other mixing systems would be awesome, in fact will become essential to have sooner or later, IMHO.

My theater is going to invest into new lighting soon. We have had demonstrations of professional LED stage lights like e.g. VariLite/Strand Acclaim or Prolights ECLFresnel TW 260W https://www.prolights.it/en/product/ECLFRESNELTW
The RGB engine in QLC+ cannot handle these at all:
E.g. the Acclaim cannot even mix a neutral white from R, G, B channels without also using its Lime channel, or the Prolights Fresnel mixes from red, orange, green, royal blue, blue, lime LEDs

If we go for such fixtures (and we will, as we need the high CRI and pleasant pastel colors they can produce), we'll have to get a board that can handle them properly.

I don't have the knowledge to implement an extended color mixing for QLC+, but in my personal view this would be a much more important feature than 3d preview.

[mcallegari]

Considering RGB Matrix can handle white channel now, what do you guys expect exactly?
I hope you understand that monitor pixels (which btw are RGB) won't be able to preview real color mixing of W* channels.
When you talk about "Extended color mixing" do you have an exact knowledge of the subject or literature that you can share to be studied and examined?
So again, what do you expect from QLC+ that other desks do?

@Edgar, please spare us from comments like "in my personal view this would be a much more important feature than 3d preview". As if every day I work on 3D preview (last change was 8 months ago)

[GGGss]

IMHO dealing with an amber channel is already tempting and challenging enough during theatre work for me.
I did consider studying the three-axed x-y-z color triangle but stopped as soon as I started. Complex and no computer preview is possible. So touching things in the dark...

[edogawa]

@Massimo, that's very simple to answer, in Chamsys MagicQ I patched this 6 Color Prolights Fresnel and was able to select colors from the colorfield, or choose from Gel pallettes, it didn't bother me in any way to think how to deal with the strange single LED colors it has. AFAIK all the major consoles can do that in a similar fashion, so that's what I'd expect from QLC+.

And no, I haven't read books or have a slight idea about color theory, nor the time to dive into that. All I know is that obviously it's doable. I really don't care how precise the representation on my RGB computer screen is as long as it matches more or less what I see on stage.

I have seen that Matrix can handle white now, but haven't had a chance to check that out. That doesn't help me anyways, I'm more concerned about the RGB/CMY Click&Go widget option for Faders in Level mode.

I don't mean to be negative or destructive, and certainly don't want to imply you are working on wrong feature sets.

I thought I take the opportunity and answer in this thread to raise my thoughts. This topic is on my agenda since quite a time, but I wasn't sure how to bring it up here in the forum without starting what now seems to happen nonetheless, you feeling attacked.

Honestly I feel that QLC+ is in a fatal position right now, with v4 falling out of favour, v5 being nowhere near production ready. a very diverse community with lots of different interests and rather slow progress from mainly your work alone (which I really admire and appreciate).

[mcallegari]

It's no secret that I work in Clay Paky and we work with professional products including multiple source LED engines.
However, when dealing with such complex sources (e.g. RGBAL) the way you achieve colors is no longer a color code, but rather an absolute color coordinate from a Gamut representation.
Once a Cx/Cy coordinate is chosen, there are two ways to output a result:
- the console "distributes" the various color components to achieve such color point
- the fixture has an engine that achieves the best possible spectrum with the source components it has

In any case the complexities are:
- the console must know the performance of each color component to reproduce a precise color
- there is no way the result can be represented on a screen, which by definition has a reduced color spectrum
- some fixtures work by reference color temperature. In some cases they are fixed, in some other they can be changed via DMX
- absolute color coordinates don't behave seamlessly on every fixture (no guarantee of color uniformity), so usually an adjustment must be done manually, possibly with a spectrometer.

As you can see, the topic is very complex.
So, please, when requesting a feature, you should give also a context to it.
There is no such "magic trick" to implement things without the proper knowledge and some clear requirements.

[edogawa]

Thank you for this detailed explanation. I can imagine that it's a complex task...

Also I had no idea who you work for, sorry...

[HarryFerg]

I only want to ability to add RGBWW pixel tape; I don't want to control the warm white.

Is there a way to add a channel gap?

[GGGss]

When creating a gap, one would use a dummy fixture, but in your case, this won't be a solution with pixel tape.
(I would solve it by swapping the 2 channels hardware wise, this might involve soldering...)

[GGGss]

In any case the complexities are:
- the console must know the performance of each color component to reproduce a precise color
- there is no way the result can be represented on a screen, which by definition has a reduced color spectrum
- some fixtures work by reference color temperature. In some cases they are fixed, in some other they can be changed via DMX
- absolute color coordinates don't behave seamlessly on every fixture (no guarantee of color uniformity), so usually an adjustment must be done manually, possibly with a spectrometer.

Realising that was the reason I stopped looking at the x y z color triangle theory.
Even with a trained eye, a spectrometer will show how much you are off.
Astera is the (reference) company that - to my knowledge - can produce the same exact colour over their product portfolio. This is why their products are well-wanted in TV and video environments.

[MichelSliepenbeek]

I see some miscommunication:

I only want to ability to add RGBWW pixel tape

I guess Harry is refering to WS2811 / WS2812B type of LED strips (which have only 3 connections: 5V, GND and DATA).
Harry should provide some more information, mainly about which controller he is using for his LED strip and what the manual says about DMX Control.

[HarryFerg]

Sorry I thought it was clear I wanted to use addressable leds

I was going to use these https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/325297962425 they are RGBWW


(Edit)
Sorry, I just used the first link I saw. I miss read it.
Here is the correct product shorturl.at/dvFIK

[mcallegari]

It is already possible to add a RGB panel (or strip) with RGBW components.
If white is cold, warm or other doesn't quite makes a difference right now in QLC+

[HarryFerg]

It is already possible to add a RGB panel (or strip) with RGBW components.
If white is cold, warm or other doesn't quite makes a difference right now in QLC+

The tape is RGBWW (5 Channels), not RGBW (4 Channels). I want the ability to add a channel gap or swap what white channel I use

[SPOPATT]

It is already possible to add a RGB panel (or strip) with RGBW components.
If white is cold, warm or other doesn't quite makes a difference right now in QLC+

The tape is RGBWW (5 Channels), not RGBW (4 Channels). I want the ability to add a channel gap or swap what white channel I use

The link you sent says 4 channel. There isn’t a warm and a cool channel. You have the option to pick which one you want. RGBWW is still four channel which QLC+ supports.

I’m honestly confused over this entire thread.

[GGGss]

I'm interested in the color aspect of this thread.
The pixel strip I'd solve hardware wise, swapping WW and CW wires - but wait a moment here ... what LED models are used here? 5 channel on a 3 channel physical connection? GND 5V and Data? How do they address the WW emitor field then?

[MichelSliepenbeek]

Smart RGB led lights have various names, the most common one is Neopixels. Each light / section is controlled by an integrated circuit that processes the information and converts it into data to control the light, the data then passes to the next light / section, the name that receives the data used is called SPI which means Serial Peripheral Interface Bus .Which is a standard in data transfer developed by Motorola. The data is then sent across the line, the first light / section accepts the first piece of data, removes the information, re-generates the data signal before moving on to the second light / section, and so on. The directions of the lights do not necessarily have to be physically directed individually but they transmit the data in cascade which means that you can replace a light / section without worrying about assigning direction to the new one.
Smart RGB led lights or pixels have 3 or 4 cables, 2 of them are used to pass the power to the light and the integrated circuit, the other 2 are for data and the “clock” but most do not use the cable. “Clock”.

If you want to read more: https://www.circuitschools.com/how-pixe ... %20Bus%20.

[HarryFerg]

It is already possible to add a RGB panel (or strip) with RGBW components.
If white is cold, warm or other doesn't quite makes a difference right now in QLC+

The tape is RGBWW (5 Channels), not RGBW (4 Channels). I want the ability to add a channel gap or swap what white channel I use

The link you sent says 4 channel. There isn’t a warm and a cool channel. You have the option to pick which one you want. RGBWW is still four channel which QLC+ supports.

I’m honestly confused over this entire thread.

Sorry, I just used the first link I saw. I miss read it.
Here is the correct product https://shorturl.at/dvFIK

[janosvitok]

The comment in the linked page says it has 6 channels per LED: WW-X-G-R-B-CW, X is unused channel.

[donniemp3]

So, it seems everyone is missing each other here. I'm extremely new to this piece of software and working with these kinds of fixtures, so maybe my simple use case might explain what brought me here.

I have a pixel LED tube. In 160 channel mode. I have control of "pixels" on it. When in this mode, channels are as follows [color][pixel].
1 - R1
2 - G1
3 - B1
4 - W1
5 - Y1
6 - R2
7 - G2
...

When I add an RGB panel and attempt to patch this, since it ignores that extra channel, R2 starts on DMX channel 5, throwing everything off. With 32 pixels, I should have 160 channels accounted for, when in QLC+, it's 128.

There may be a very simple workaround, and this may just be my ignorance to the software. But my intended outcome is having a 160 channel RGBWY pixel light tube patched in QLC+, and my journey in figuring out how to do that brought me here.