How to use WHITE in RGBW Matrix?

Archive of the non-categorized posts related to the QLC+ technical support.
Please do not create new threads here, instead, use the categories above !
Post Reply
User avatar
collision.ost
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:27 am
Location: Berlin
Real Name: Hermann Hellwig
Contact:

Hey QLC Gang! :D

I wanne control the Ayrton MagicPanel R with RGBW LED's.
Image

But how can i control the White LED's? There no option in the RGB-Matrix Editor (Functions). There also no white response in the 2D channel monitor.

I wonder then why there is a senseless RGB function?

Please Help, thanks! :idea:
User avatar
mcallegari
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Italy
Real Name: Massimo Callegari
Contact:

collision.ost wrote:I wonder then why there is a senseless RGB function?
That's quite rude of you. If you want us to consider your request, try to be nicer.
Quoting the "READ BEFORE POSTING - Issues reporting guidelines":
Always consider that if something doesn't work in your environment, it doesn't mean it won't work for everybody.
Baylink
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:32 pm
Real Name:

mcallegari wrote:
collision.ost wrote:I wonder then why there is a senseless RGB function?
That's quite rude of you. If you want us to consider your request, try to be nicer.
Quoting the "READ BEFORE POSTING - Issues reporting guidelines":
Always consider that if something doesn't work in your environment, it doesn't mean it won't work for everybody.
Oh, please tell me this isn't a project where *the lead dev* hasn't learned the "don't bite the newbies" rule...

I was going to volunteer to help contribute to the doco, but if this is the tenor of things around here, the amount of clarifying questions I will have to ask to do that will get my head bitten off... and I need it for stuff. :-)
User avatar
mcallegari
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Italy
Real Name: Massimo Callegari
Contact:

Baylink wrote:Oh, please tell me this isn't a project where *the lead dev* hasn't learned the "don't bite the newbies" rule...
I was going to volunteer to help contribute to the doco, but if this is the tenor of things around here, the amount of clarifying questions I will have to ask to do that will get my head bitten off... and I need it for stuff. :-)
I don't mind newbies. I do mind ignorant people instead, that come here with their poor judgements.
janosvitok
Posts: 1266
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:05 am
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Real Name: Jano Svitok
Contact:

This is not yet supported.
User avatar
forresthopkinsa
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:23 am
Real Name:

Is this in the roadmap? I'm sure many would agree that this would be an incredibly useful feature, considering the rising prominence of RGBW fixtures :)
Light Designer for Hillsong Phoenix

Image
User avatar
mcallegari
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Italy
Real Name: Massimo Callegari
Contact:

Ideas are one thing, the reality is another...

Computers work with the RGB color space, not RGBW.
So, since you're requesting a feature, you should also think of all the cases and elaborate a strategy to actually realize it.

For example, how can QLC+ decide when to control the white channel and when not ?
The simplest solution would be: when R == G == B, then use the pure white. Otherwise RGB channels will be used.

If this is what you want, then the request is clearer. If you have in mind more exotic usages, then please elaborate.
janosvitok
Posts: 1266
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:05 am
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Real Name: Jano Svitok
Contact:

See also this topic: www.qlcplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9298

afterglow has this somehow sorted, most probably somewhere here: https://github.com/brunchboy/afterglow/ ... or.clj#L88
(it's clojure, that's greek to me :) )

see also https://github.com/brunchboy/afterglow/ ... r-channels
boxy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:18 am
Real Name: Robert Box

The word here, again, is gamut!

A fourth (or fifth or sixth for amber and UV) could happen, but the on-screen display could not reflect it. Search the other posts about this where I've put a formula in. I think converting RGB to white is not the way with the matrix; it should be a seperate 4th channel.

Loving the comment about QLC being disfunctional :D :D :D
User avatar
mcallegari
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Italy
Real Name: Massimo Callegari
Contact:

Alright thanks, Robert's Excel studies seem the most scientific to me :)

One thing I don't understand though: after calculations on RGB channels, what is the contribution of the white channel ? The original one (column E) ?
Basically on RGBW_equation2.xlsx I would expect to see an additional column (N ?) with the final W value.

Also, there's one more thing to consider. At the moment, RGB scripts work only on RGB channels. Changing them for additional channels would be a mess, and moreover depends on what kind of fixtures you're using.

Indeed a delicate topic...
Baylink
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:32 pm
Real Name:

mcallegari wrote:Alright thanks, Robert's Excel studies seem the most scientific to me :)

One thing I don't understand though: after calculations on RGB channels, what is the contribution of the white channel ? The original one (column E) ?
Basically on RGBW_equation2.xlsx I would expect to see an additional column (N ?) with the final W value.

Also, there's one more thing to consider. At the moment, RGB scripts work only on RGB channels. Changing them for additional channels would be a mess, and moreover depends on what kind of fixtures you're using.

Indeed a delicate topic...
Indeed. :-)

Disregarding the UV and such channels for the moment, this is an issue of colorspace mapping, and it's similar to what takes place inside a RIP when you're going from RGB image files to CMYK toner; not only do you have to convert RGB to CMY, you then have to figure out how much black to replace the colors with, an issue that depends on the gamuts of all 4 toners.

The issue will be the same here -- for any given combination of colors, you have to decide how much of it to replace with white, and how -- and what the best way is to do it depends a lot on who the audience is and what they're using it for.

My snap reaction is that the right answer is to switch the users over to entering either HSB, or HLV, probably HSB, and then convert that to RGB or RGBW (which is usually a cool white), or RGBA, internally on the way to the fixture.

You could actually still allow entry in RGB, even; store all colors as both HSB *and* the components, and leave whichever one wasn't entered as all 0's; then convert on the way out if necessary. That allows, even, dealing with multicomponent fixtures (RGBAWU, or things like the 6-color ETC's), and puts the translation tables/formulae inside the fixture machinery, where it belongs, without keeping you from being able to access individual components if you need to.

It would also make colors stored in cue sheets portable across fixtures, as much as that's possible.
User avatar
pipolino419
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:44 am
Real Name: Rodolfo

It is true that it is frustrating not to have the white output live on the channel W. The Full RGB mix is ugly on the LEDs. But the matrix is so interresting that one would like it to be perfect. RGB or CYM or RGBW and not RGBWAUVPINK :) Robert:)
bestdani
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 11:13 am
Real Name: Daniel

Just my two cents to this discussion because I also made my mind around it since I've some RGBA fixtures and there are other "exotic" types of fixtures and many DMX software has some trouble dealing with all them: I came to the conclusion that the best way would be probably if "the user" could define own rules for example in the fixture editor when and how the additional channels should become active, I did not made my mind around how this could be done exactly though, I guess a combination of simple conditions and math could do the job like:

Code: Select all

if(R > ... && G > ...) A = (2*R + G) / 3
or

Code: Select all

if(R != 0 && G != 0 && B != 0) W = (R + G + B) / 3
More abstract maybe: I think finally it requires something where in the fixture editor one can define how the values from QLC+ RGB color space can be transformed into the fixtures color space and QLC+ should be strictly use RGB. I guess this would even allow you to interpret QLC's RGB values as HSV for your fixture and other fancy stuff.
MrTK
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:35 am
Real Name:

Just create a "million" buttons / faders, one for each pixel on the light @ white only + intensity.. Set your looks, and then record it straight into a chase.. 2 or 3 chases shouldnt take too long.. :) heheheh,, I did this once with just rgb par cans and a ETC EXPRESSION3. good luck.. I think this is the second time ive recommended something like this, hope ppl dont think im joking.. Just have fun and try it.
3rdPlanetRob
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:53 am
Real Name: 3rdPlanetRob

Pardon me for butting in, you guys are a bit over my head, but i wanted to second (third?) the request (rgbw capability in matrices), i had mentioned it before, but i know in the programming sometimes things are far more complex than they seem. I never got past hello world in my own programming.

I also wanted to suggest the possibility of... black? It would make patterns in the lighting stand out so much more. I've been playing with mostly plasma and gradient "patterns" in matrices, and they make some amazing effects when you adjust the parameters right. Especially when you combine plasma, gradient and other patterns together in the same matrix you can get some really amazing and subtle pulsing effects, it seems like so much more could be done with more color options. But again i know how much more complicated the programming can get.

Thanks!
Post Reply