[SOLVED] Proposal: interaction between chasers ...

[Freddy_H]

Hello,

I'd like to hear your opinion on the following proposal:

The ability to trigger (start) a step in a chaser from another step in another chaser, like Chaser "A", step 5 triggers (make reposition and start) Chaser "B", step 7 and then Chaser "A" continues to the next step (depending on timer settings).

I'd like something like this for the theatrical performances I'm doing sound & light for, I've built a workspace with 2 cue lists (one for sound, one for light), being able to control one cue list from the other would make 'control' more easy (like at the beginning of an act, starting the sound cue would automatically -respecting any predefined delay- bring up the corresponding light cue)

By extention, this "trigger function" could be used to integrate starting any function from within a chaser/cue list (like starting a show) ...

Grtz,

Freddy

[plugz]

Hi,

Search for "loopback" in the forum.

[siegmund]

Hey,

While plugz answered I already wrote some hints on that - thought my 100th post could be extra kind

You already could achieve this function with the help of the loopback plugin.
Please have a look at the attached workspace.
In it, there are some scenes that are doing some things, the interesting one is "scene start cue 2". This scene is setting the DMX channel 1 in universe "loop" to 255. This universe is patched by the loopback plugin as input for the DMX universe. I then added in the vc cue list 2 this channel (loopback 1;1) as external input for the play button. So when cue 1 reaches this scene, cue 2 is started.
With this basic principle it is really fun to play around to achieve different things you might need for your application. Enjoy

[Freddy_H]

Hi Siegmund, Plugz,

Thanks for pointing this out to me (I did not make an associaton between my proposal and the loopback plugin capabilities).

I did some reading up on loopback plugin and had a look at the kindly provided sample workspace.

I understand how the loopback 'mechanics' in the sample workspace work, but the 'trigger' always starts clue-list 2 from the beginning.

What I would like to do is trigger a specific step within a cue list (like 'scene 3' from cue-list 2), but I find no way to tie the loopback channel to a step within the cue list.

I have like 15 steps in my 'lights' cue list, 2 of them (step 4 & 8) I would like to 'trigger' from my 'sound' cue list (controlling the rest of them with 'next' key). I could break up my light cue list into 3 separate ones (1-3, 4-7, 8-15) but this would (in my opinion) make my VC more cluttered, provide me with less overview and make control more complex (as each cue list would require it's own dedicated next/previous keys).

Grtz,

Freddy

[mcallegari]

You might want to set the cue list fader in "step mode", so you can send a specific value and start the cue list from a specific step.
Never tried that myself though

[Deece]

Could you use Collections?

I set up Collections using the required Scene plus Sound (Effect). Then added the collection to the cue list.
I only needed one cue list....

[Freddy_H]

Hello Massimo,

Thanks for your suggestion of "step mode", I digged a little bit deeper into it and these are my findings:

I have been trying various combinations, but could not get the trigger to work as I intend to.
My intended operation mode for the 'trigger' steps is
1. trigger should work as 'fire and forget'
2. if the referenced cue is not active, then activate it
3. set the referenced step as 'current active step' within the referenced cue

Setup :
- Windows 10 with QLC+ 4.10.3 and siegmund's sample workspace (modified by me, see attached file).
- cue 1 (originating cue) contains 3 scenes (steps 1,3,5) and 2 'trigger' scenes (steps 2, 4).
- cue 2 (referenced cue) contains 5 scenes (endless duration, moving between scenes with next/previous arrows)
- trigger 1 aims to start cue 2, step 2
- trigger 2 aims to start cue 2, step 4

Cue 2 ranges (after sidefader set to 'steps')
- step 1 : 0 - 50
- step 2 : 51 - 101
- step 3 : 102 - 152
- step 4 : 153 - 203
- step 5 : 204 - 255

Cue 2 input universe assignment to loopback
assignment of loopback to only LEFT fader works,
assignment of loopback to both LEFT and RIGHT fader works,
assignment of loopback to only RIGHT fader has no effect

Loopback values
have to be calculated as INVERTED values (relative to max value of 255):
let's say I choose to send value 75 to trigger step 2, and 175 to trigger step 4,
then the values set on the 'trigger cue 2' dimmer have to be
. 255 - 75 = 180 for step 2
. 255 - 175 = 80 for step 4.

The behaviour of cue 2 is very 'erratic', meaning it is difficult for me to find any logig behind it's 'working logic'.
sometimes triggers have no effect,
sometimes triggers start the referenced cue,
sometimes during the trigger duration referenced step is active, but after trigger duration the referenced cue jumps to the end
sometimes referenced cue loops between two steps
sometimes trigger start the referenced cue, but moving on to the next step in originating cue makes the referenced cue jumpt to the end
...

In the referenced cue I also added the 'trigger dimmer' to each step (with a corresponding inverted value), hoping that with this referenced cue behviour would stabilize, but to no avail ...

I think that (as far as I know the possibilities of QLC+) it is not possible to use loopback plugin to achieve 'cue step triggering'.
Please feel free to experiment with the workspace and prove my wrong ...

Grtz,

Freddy

[Freddy_H]

Deece,

Thanks for your feedback.

Back when I was experimenting with QLC+ in order to decide if it was useable for my goals (theatrical performances) I compared 'single cue' (sound + light together) vs 'double cue' (separate sound & light cues) and also looked into collections.

I found that (for my needs) separate sound & light cues would work best (sometimes sound scenes & light scenes run simultaneously, but I need to act on one of them depending on actions on the stage) ... but then I did not find a solution for dependencies between cues (other dan doing it manually using VC interface). Hence this thread.

Collections (again, for my needs) look useful, but only for "fixed combinations" that always run for the same duration (like lightning & thunder for 10 seconds) as actions on stage do not impact one of the scenes in the collection.

Grtz,

Freddy

[Freddy_H]

What a good nigth's sleep can't do ...

I have been re-thinking how this trigger thing should work (at least for my requirements) ...
Basically, when you have a 2-cue setup for your play (1 sound, 1 light) both cues progress separately during the play, one could say you're making a linear progression through both cues during the play (and you're not jumping around in your cue step sequences).
So when you are at a specific step in cue 1 and you want to 'trigger' a step in cue 2, then your 'current position' in cue 2 is just prior to the step you want to trigger.
So this trigger should not trigger any specific step number, but just the NEXT STEP.

Ergo, the loopback channel is not to be assigned to the Playback tab or to the Side Faders tab, but to the Next Cue tab !

I modified the previously posted cue step triggering workspace like this:
- set up 2 Loopback fixtures, 1 for each cue
- modified all scenes to only contain DMX universe fixtures
- modified all 'trigger scenes' to only contain Loopback universe fixtures
- modified chasers: scenes with endless duration, triggers with 0ms duration, added some scenes and triggers
- modified cue list properties:
  - no external input for Playback, Previous cue & Side Faders
  - Side Fader behaviour set to Crossfade
  - Next cue set to according External input and also assigned key combination to them (S for cue 1, L for cue 2).

When you open the joined workspace and start the VC in operate mode, then the following key sequence shows bi-directional triggers in action:
  S : start cue 1, step 1 (scene 1)
  L : start cue 2, step 1 (scene 4)
  S : trigger cue 2, step 2 (scene 5), advance cue 1 to step 3 (scene 1)
  L : trigger cue 1, step 4 (scene 2), advance cue 2 to step 4 (scene 6)
  S : trigger cue 2, step 5 (scene 7), advance cue 1 to step 6 (scene 3) - end of cue 1
  L : advance cue 2 to step 6 (scene 8) - end of cue 2

I'm more and more amazed of the capabilities of QLC+ software, thanks to everyone in this thread pointing me to the right direction !

Freddy