Scene channel levels not saved after adding scene to show

[willmodelisme]

Unfortunately QLC+ is not designed to have scenes in a show. When you add a scene to a show it will create a sequence....

I would say that it is not correct.
QLC+ IS design to have scenes in show. And that work very well.

As plugz already said, there is only a bug with scenes that cannot be used as standalone if they are used in a show.
I will add that as soon as the scenes are played in the show, they become available as standalone.

[badgermanus]

Thanks TEL0000 - I can confirm that adding a scene to a chaser and then adding the chaser to the show works.

But digging into this some more - is there an inherent problem with scenes and sequences? I've managed to loose my scene's settings just by adding a sequence:

1) Create a new scene and assign values
2) Add a sequence to it - all of the sequence's values are set to zero
3) Save and re-open the file
4) Both the scene's and sequence's values are now all set to zero

Sorry - not sure if I'm missing a subtlety of sequences here...

Cheers, Jonathan

[plugz]

Basically: When a scene is bound to a sequence, it becomes a slave of this sequence. It should not be used as a "standalone" scene anymore.

It is a bug.

As long as it is not fixed, you'll have to copy a scene before associating it to a sequence if you want to keep using it as a simple scene.

[TEL0000]

Unfortunately QLC+ is not designed to have scenes in a show. When you add a scene to a show it will create a sequence....

I would say that it is not correct.
QLC+ IS design to have scenes in show. And that work very well.

As plugz already said, there is only a bug with scenes that cannot be used as standalone if they are used in a show.
I will add that as soon as the scenes are played in the show, they become available as standalone.

The basic concept is that the scene acts as the track and sequences are added to the track to change the values of the scene. You can't add the scene itself to a track.

The bug is, that scenes with sequences attached to it lose their values. But even when the bug is fixed you still can't add scenes directly to a track in a show.

When you play the show the sequences change the values of the scene. That's why they will become available after you've played the show. The scene simply stores the last values of the sequence.

[willmodelisme]

I have it now.
Tks TEL0000.
It 's more clear with your explantation.
I also get trought the manual and I am with you.

[mcallegari]

What bug ?
Scenes do not have a duration, while everything in a Show MUST have a duration.
So the fact Scenes cannot be added to a Show is intentional.

Also, the fact that Scenes act as a container for Sequences and don't store values is intentional too, and is explained in the documentation.

Please try to adapt to how the software is design and stop crying and call everything a bug for no reason.

[willmodelisme]

You are doing a great job mcallegari, but you should step down a bit and think twice before replying such a way.
I find your wording a bit rude.
We are not your children, you are not my father, and by the way, we are not " crying and call everything a bug for no reason".
The aim of this forum is to report what we think is a bug.
Your are right, it is not always bug and many time we are just misuderstanding the software.
Sorry if we dont have the same knoledge than you have, but you shouldn't be upset by our question.
Or let something else answer if you can't cope anymore.

Getting back to our issue:
-the manual page for the show manager says : -Import an existing Scene. This will create a new track and a 10 seconds Sequence with one single step representing the selected Scene.
NOWHERE it is mention that doing this will kill you scene when you play it as a stand alone.
And NOWHERE it is mention that if you play the show and when the sequence associated to a scene is palyed, that scene become available again as a stand alone.

So, tell me me where we are wrong and what we misunderstood.

For a live performance, when I have setup everything, comes the time to test all the scenes that are used for all the shows I have created.
I have set a buton for each scene in the virtual console but they all don't work initaily.
I have to play all my shows ones to test eveything.
It is simply impossible to do so.

So if it is a normal behaviour, QLC+ is just unusable for my application and for the way I work.

[mcallegari]

Sorry if we dont have the same knoledge than you have, but you shouldn't be upset by our question.
Or let something else answer if you can't cope anymore.

i'm not asking anyone to be a developer, and if you feel you don't have my same knowledge of the sofware, then before posting here, it is good practice to
- carefully read the documentation first, since 110 pages are provided
- watch the video tutorials since 4 hours of videos are provided (this specific thread is not the case)
- search the forum for similar posts. This discussion has been treated many times and if you searched, you'd already have the answer

From the documentation: (Basic Concepts & Glossary)

A Sequence is bound to one specific Scene, which means that all the steps of the Sequence can only control the enabled channels of that Scene.

and again (Show Manager)

Steps: The steps of a Chaser can represent any QLC+ Function, while the steps of a Sequence represents different values of the same Scene.
In other words, a Chaser is an independent function, while a Sequence can exist only on top of a Scene.
The reason for this is, as mentioned before, the visual approach of the Show Manager. If a track of a Show is the graphical representation of a Scene, then it's more intuitive to think that each Sequence created on that track is a function controlling the values of that Scene.

Plus
- you got an explanation and a solution from plugz, who is a QLC+ developer, on February 2nd
- you had a solution again from TEL0000 3 days ago

But this thread keeps going....thus my conclusion that you guys cry and are never happy even if someone replies.

Final consideration: I really don't understand why when you pay $1000 for a software, then that software is perfect, and if there is something you don't like, then you adapt your workflow to it.
When the software is free, instead, it has to be adapted to your needs, cause someone else will take of it (and most importantly will reply)
I am really starting to get sick of this attitude. We are professionals in what we do and we don't deserve this treatment for dedicating our spare time mostly to receive complains or read sentences like "QLC+ is just unusable for my application and for the way I work."

[willmodelisme]

Who is complaining ?
I only see you complaining againt us because of simple questions we can ask.
You the first call us "chirldrens" and I personaly do not accept that, even on a forum.
As I said, do not answer you are not able to reply with a minimun of respect.

Yes plugz reply:

Basically: When a scene is bound to a sequence, it becomes a slave of this sequence. It should not be used as a "standalone" scene anymore.

It is a bug.

As long as it is not fixed, you'll have to copy a scene before associating it to a sequence if you want to keep using it as a simple scene.

So again, read it twice.

We just expose you a issue.
Isn'it possible for you just to admit that it can be a issue for some users ?

And please, if you quote me, quote the entire sentence. I wrote:
" So if it is a normal behaviour, QLC+ is just unusable for my application and for the way I work."
It is just a calm and personal tought and certainly not a complain against QLC+ or against you.


Well, enought for me also....

I asked you to step down a bit, but your are definitly too hight from us to understand a minimum our expectations.
The succes of QLC+ is also made by users. It seems that you have forgot that.... so sad.....

[mcallegari]

@willmodelisme
first: do not put words in my mouth. I haven't used the word children. Even adults cry.
second: I've read plugz's post. I'm not blind. If he calls it a bug (and he has all the rights cause he knows the software) then I can discuss it with him and maybe we can end up just improving the documentation or change the way QLC+ works. This is up to us. No need to insist like we can work for you. In fact, he posted it twice, cause at the moment this is the situation.
The fact QLC+ is open source, doesn't entitle anyone to be wanting instant changes to the software. First, users should learn to ask nicely.
third: I admit it can be an issue for you and a few others, as well as I am pretty sure it isn't for the rest of users, which is probably the majority, who understood how the software works and accepted it

I asked you to step down a bit, but your are definitly too hight from us to understand a minimum our expectations.
The succes of QLC+ is also made by users. It seems that you have forgot that.... so sad.....

Again, you do not represent all the QLC+ users, so have some respect for me and the project in the first place.
Since 3 years I am trying to satisfy user's expectations, and I believe many things have been already done in that sense, and many users are happy about the improvements.
All of this, by dedicating my personal time to it, when I can clearly do something else, despite all the shit I've been reading in this forum.

If YOU are not happy, then I'm sorry, but feel free to choose any software you like best, or any price you like to pay.

[willmodelisme]

Well, I read the full post again and everything was running gently with a lot of respect for QLC developers before your full of contempt reply.

And you keep on that way: "All of this, by dedicating my personal time to it, when I can clearly do something else, despite all the shit I've been reading in this forum..."

I never " insisted like if you can work for me"
I never asked sometime " badly ".
I was always polite and respectful for your work. Read my post.

Can you say the same for you ?


Maybe I am the scapegoat....

[badgermanus]

Maybe we can cool it a bit and get back on topic...

I'm (slowly) beginning to understand what is intended here, but confused as to why it works that way. Let me explain:

1) My workflow is to start by building up a library of scenes. Complex scenes. 10s of separate lights. Very specific values, especially for effects channels. I'm kinda using scenes as shortcuts. We'll get back to this as I don't think this is a way of working supported by QLC.
2) For each performance (several per year), I use my library of scenes and add them to a show, generally syncing different scenes to an audio track. Despite being able to go to the Show view, hitting + and choosing a scene, you're not directly adding a scene - QLC will automatically create a sequence in order to give the scene a duration in the context of the show, as mcallegari explained.

So far so good. It all makes sense.

3) However, when I look at the sequence I've just added to my show, all the channels are at zero, so I have to now re-build my scene. For 10s of lights, and ultimately 10s of scenes. If I'm lucky I remember to use copy/paste, otherwise I'm left confused as to why my lights are not working. mcallegari suggests that's how it is supposed to work. ok, I can use dopy/paste every time I create a new sequence to re-create my carefully crafted scene within the sequence.


FINALLY, I save the file and re-open it later on. This time ALL MY SEQUENCES HAVE ALL CHANNELS SET TO ZERO. All of my work setting up channels has been lost - both the root scene and all sequences are set to zero.

Somebody (TEL0000?, Plugz?) pointed out that playing the show restores channel values to the root scene, but it still doesn't restore the sequences. My shows no longer work after saving and re-loading.


I hope that helps.


I'd be happy to work on the documentation once I have a (very) firm grasp on how this is supposed to work and am sure that what I'm seeing is intentional.


Cheers, Jonathan

[badgermanus]

I've changed the title of this post as it appears the issue is not directly related to shows.

Developers - please let me know if there's anything else I can do to help move this forward or explain the issue I'm seeing. Perhaps some others could also confirm whether they see this or what I'm doing wrong?

Here's a very short video of the problem - Add a fixture, a scene, a sequence and observe all the channel values being set to zero after saving and re-opening the file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uk564rc1e578x ... m.mov?dl=0


Workspace attached.

Cheers, Jonathan

[mcallegari]

You do realize that you haven't added a step to the sequence, right ?
The sequence is therefore empty, and it is saved as such. So there's no value to expect to be set.

First add a step, then select the step, then set the value.

[badgermanus]

Ah, I see what you mean. Oooops.

Here's another attempt, back in the context of a show.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxb2s0v2m945z ... 2.mov?dl=0

Scenes can have multiple sequences, correct? I'm not sure why I'm unable to edit that second sequence in the show. It's not important to me, as I generally use scenes as-is (the same every time I use them).

Anyhow, back to my initial issue, here's my summary:

1) You cannot add scenes directly to shows - QLC+ will automatically create a sequence and add a duration for the scene in the context of the show.
2) It is easy to think your channel values have been lost, and they show all zero when you select a sequence but not one of its steps. A nice enhancement would be to automatically select the first step when a sequence is displayed, or perhaps disable the sliders as any editing you do at this stage is not being saved anywhere.
3) When you add a scene to a show, it is important to make sure the channel values are entered (or manually copied) into the sequence step(s).
4) After saving and reloading the file, the original scene will have it's channels all set to zero. However, the individual steps in the sequences still have their correct channel values.
5) Therefore, if you want to re-use the scene later in the show (or in another show), you're probably going to have to copy the channel values from another of the scenes sequence steps - you cannot rely on the scene still having the values you initially set it with and the new sequence starting off with those values.


So I don't think there is a bug here, just lots of opportunity for confusion.

Cheers, Jonathan