Scene channel levels not saved after adding scene to show

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badgermanus
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Real Name: Jonathan Wilson

I'm experiencing a problem with channels getting set to zero after saving IFF they are used in a scene.

Here's a video using 4.10.2b showing the problem. I add a single fixture, single scene, saved the file, re-open - everything is OK. Add the scene to a show, save, re-open and the channel values are back at zero.

Video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kog88xc2kb2u7 ... s.mov?dl=0
Workspace: https://www.dropbox.com/s/av1gxbaqz1e83 ... d.qxw?dl=0

I've also tried the exact same thing with QLC+_4.10.3-TEST-20160120.dmg and confirm this issue is NOT YET FIXED.

Many thanks to everyone working on this, it's a fantastic piece of software.

Regards, Jonathan
Last edited by badgermanus on Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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badgermanus
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In response to willmodelisme's question:

"-when I play the show, the scenes channels get back to saved value as soon as they are read."

I can confirm I see the same behavior, details:

Add a fixture
Add the fixture to a scene and set the channel levels on the fixture
Add the scene to a show
Save
Re-open the file
Look at the scene - the fixture's channel values are now at zero
Play the show
Look at the scene again - the fixture's channel values are miraculously back again

This is interesting, but not really a workaround though - I have lost hours of work because I've lost channel values in a scene.


Cheers, Jonathan
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fooschnickens
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Your video links are broken, you need the full URL to the video not the truncated version with the "..." in the middle.
badgermanus
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Video links fixed
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willmodelisme
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I repeated the scenario and the issue is repeated as well each time.
Can others take just 2 minutes to confirm ?

Or tell us what we are doing wrong ?
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plugz
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Basically: When a scene is bound to a sequence, it becomes a slave of this sequence. It should not be used as a "standalone" scene anymore.

It is a bug.

As long as it is not fixed, you'll have to copy a scene before associating it to a sequence if you want to keep using it as a simple scene.
willmodelisme
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Many thanks for your input plugz. ;)
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badgermanus
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Am I missing a workaround here?

At present, the 'run the show' workaround to get all my scene values back doesn't work as I have 30 shows totaling 1/5 hours - there's no way I can play through them all each time before saving.

Is nobody else putting scenes into shows?

Cheers, Jonathan
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willmodelisme
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I do but It is not a big deal for me because I use QLC+ only to run the shows and do nothing else.
I don't need to run the scenes before.
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TEL0000
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Unfortunately QLC+ is not designed to have scenes in a show. When you add a scene to a show it will create a sequence.

As plugz said, the scene should not be used as standalone anymore when there is a sequence attached to it.
So the workaround is: Copy the scenes and add the copy to the show.

Another workaround:
Put the scene into a chaser and add the chaser to the show.
willmodelisme
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TEL0000 wrote:Unfortunately QLC+ is not designed to have scenes in a show. When you add a scene to a show it will create a sequence....
I would say that it is not correct.
QLC+ IS design to have scenes in show. And that work very well.

As plugz already said, there is only a bug with scenes that cannot be used as standalone if they are used in a show.
I will add that as soon as the scenes are played in the show, they become available as standalone.
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badgermanus
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Thanks TEL0000 - I can confirm that adding a scene to a chaser and then adding the chaser to the show works.

But digging into this some more - is there an inherent problem with scenes and sequences? I've managed to loose my scene's settings just by adding a sequence:

1) Create a new scene and assign values
2) Add a sequence to it - all of the sequence's values are set to zero
3) Save and re-open the file
4) Both the scene's and sequence's values are now all set to zero

Sorry - not sure if I'm missing a subtlety of sequences here...

Cheers, Jonathan
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plugz
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plugz wrote:Basically: When a scene is bound to a sequence, it becomes a slave of this sequence. It should not be used as a "standalone" scene anymore.

It is a bug.

As long as it is not fixed, you'll have to copy a scene before associating it to a sequence if you want to keep using it as a simple scene.
TEL0000
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willmodelisme wrote:
TEL0000 wrote:Unfortunately QLC+ is not designed to have scenes in a show. When you add a scene to a show it will create a sequence....
I would say that it is not correct.
QLC+ IS design to have scenes in show. And that work very well.

As plugz already said, there is only a bug with scenes that cannot be used as standalone if they are used in a show.
I will add that as soon as the scenes are played in the show, they become available as standalone.
The basic concept is that the scene acts as the track and sequences are added to the track to change the values of the scene. You can't add the scene itself to a track.

The bug is, that scenes with sequences attached to it lose their values. But even when the bug is fixed you still can't add scenes directly to a track in a show.

When you play the show the sequences change the values of the scene. That's why they will become available after you've played the show. The scene simply stores the last values of the sequence.
willmodelisme
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I have it now.
Tks TEL0000.
It 's more clear with your explantation.
I also get trought the manual and I am with you. ;)
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mcallegari
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What bug ?
Scenes do not have a duration, while everything in a Show MUST have a duration.
So the fact Scenes cannot be added to a Show is intentional.

Also, the fact that Scenes act as a container for Sequences and don't store values is intentional too, and is explained in the documentation.

Please try to adapt to how the software is design and stop crying and call everything a bug for no reason.
willmodelisme
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You are doing a great job mcallegari, but you should step down a bit and think twice before replying such a way.
I find your wording a bit rude.
We are not your children, you are not my father, and by the way, we are not " crying and call everything a bug for no reason".
The aim of this forum is to report what we think is a bug.
Your are right, it is not always bug and many time we are just misuderstanding the software.
Sorry if we dont have the same knoledge than you have, but you shouldn't be upset by our question.
Or let something else answer if you can't cope anymore.

Getting back to our issue:
-the manual page for the show manager says : -Import an existing Scene. This will create a new track and a 10 seconds Sequence with one single step representing the selected Scene.
NOWHERE it is mention that doing this will kill you scene when you play it as a stand alone.
And NOWHERE it is mention that if you play the show and when the sequence associated to a scene is palyed, that scene become available again as a stand alone.

So, tell me me where we are wrong and what we misunderstood.

For a live performance, when I have setup everything, comes the time to test all the scenes that are used for all the shows I have created.
I have set a buton for each scene in the virtual console but they all don't work initaily.
I have to play all my shows ones to test eveything.
It is simply impossible to do so.

So if it is a normal behaviour, QLC+ is just unusable for my application and for the way I work.
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mcallegari
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Sorry if we dont have the same knoledge than you have, but you shouldn't be upset by our question.
Or let something else answer if you can't cope anymore.
i'm not asking anyone to be a developer, and if you feel you don't have my same knowledge of the sofware, then before posting here, it is good practice to
- carefully read the documentation first, since 110 pages are provided
- watch the video tutorials since 4 hours of videos are provided (this specific thread is not the case)
- search the forum for similar posts. This discussion has been treated many times and if you searched, you'd already have the answer

From the documentation: (Basic Concepts & Glossary)
A Sequence is bound to one specific Scene, which means that all the steps of the Sequence can only control the enabled channels of that Scene.
and again (Show Manager)
Steps: The steps of a Chaser can represent any QLC+ Function, while the steps of a Sequence represents different values of the same Scene.
In other words, a Chaser is an independent function, while a Sequence can exist only on top of a Scene.
The reason for this is, as mentioned before, the visual approach of the Show Manager. If a track of a Show is the graphical representation of a Scene, then it's more intuitive to think that each Sequence created on that track is a function controlling the values of that Scene.
Plus
- you got an explanation and a solution from plugz, who is a QLC+ developer, on February 2nd
- you had a solution again from TEL0000 3 days ago

But this thread keeps going....thus my conclusion that you guys cry and are never happy even if someone replies.

Final consideration: I really don't understand why when you pay $1000 for a software, then that software is perfect, and if there is something you don't like, then you adapt your workflow to it.
When the software is free, instead, it has to be adapted to your needs, cause someone else will take of it (and most importantly will reply)
I am really starting to get sick of this attitude. We are professionals in what we do and we don't deserve this treatment for dedicating our spare time mostly to receive complains or read sentences like "QLC+ is just unusable for my application and for the way I work."
willmodelisme
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Who is complaining ?
I only see you complaining againt us because of simple questions we can ask.
You the first call us "chirldrens" and I personaly do not accept that, even on a forum.
As I said, do not answer you are not able to reply with a minimun of respect.

Yes plugz reply:
plugz wrote:Basically: When a scene is bound to a sequence, it becomes a slave of this sequence. It should not be used as a "standalone" scene anymore.

It is a bug.

As long as it is not fixed, you'll have to copy a scene before associating it to a sequence if you want to keep using it as a simple scene.
So again, read it twice.

We just expose you a issue.
Isn'it possible for you just to admit that it can be a issue for some users ?

And please, if you quote me, quote the entire sentence. I wrote:
" So if it is a normal behaviour, QLC+ is just unusable for my application and for the way I work."
It is just a calm and personal tought and certainly not a complain against QLC+ or against you.


Well, enought for me also....

I asked you to step down a bit, but your are definitly too hight from us to understand a minimum our expectations.
The succes of QLC+ is also made by users. It seems that you have forgot that.... so sad.....
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mcallegari
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@willmodelisme
first: do not put words in my mouth. I haven't used the word children. Even adults cry.
second: I've read plugz's post. I'm not blind. If he calls it a bug (and he has all the rights cause he knows the software) then I can discuss it with him and maybe we can end up just improving the documentation or change the way QLC+ works. This is up to us. No need to insist like we can work for you. In fact, he posted it twice, cause at the moment this is the situation.
The fact QLC+ is open source, doesn't entitle anyone to be wanting instant changes to the software. First, users should learn to ask nicely.
third: I admit it can be an issue for you and a few others, as well as I am pretty sure it isn't for the rest of users, which is probably the majority, who understood how the software works and accepted it
I asked you to step down a bit, but your are definitly too hight from us to understand a minimum our expectations.
The succes of QLC+ is also made by users. It seems that you have forgot that.... so sad.....
Again, you do not represent all the QLC+ users, so have some respect for me and the project in the first place.
Since 3 years I am trying to satisfy user's expectations, and I believe many things have been already done in that sense, and many users are happy about the improvements.
All of this, by dedicating my personal time to it, when I can clearly do something else, despite all the shit I've been reading in this forum.

If YOU are not happy, then I'm sorry, but feel free to choose any software you like best, or any price you like to pay.
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