Akaii APC Mini

The issues found when using the Input/Output Manager panel
3li
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Akaii APC Mini

Post by 3li » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:18 pm

Hi everbody! ;) :)
I'm kind of new in working with QLC+..
I bought a new Akai APC Mini midi controller, and i managed to make them work together...but the led lamps on Akaii's buttons doesen't work. I'm using a Win 7 platform and i could really use a help... Thank You ! :)

janosvitok
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by janosvitok » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:51 pm

What you need to do is:
1. check feedback channel in input/output manager (the MIDI out to akai)
2. use proper profile for akai
3. either set in the profile feedback values (color values for on and off) or set them in the virtual console button properties

see http://qlcplus.org/docs/midiplugin.html#akai-feedbacks

3li
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by 3li » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:31 pm

hI!

This works!!!!!! aaaaaaawww, thank You very very much!!!!
P.s. i forgot to check box feedback in QLC+ .. silly me! :shock:

3li
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by 3li » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:36 pm

It's interesting to notice that you don't necessarily need to keep 0 as lower value. For example with lower = 6 and upper = 2 the result will be: Function Off -> red LED, Function On -> green LED.

I cannot change color, nor I can shut down green light....

Any hlep with that?

janosvitok
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by janosvitok » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:58 pm

3li wrote:I cannot change color, nor I can shut down green light....
What do you mean by that?

Please attach here your qxw file and any custom qxf files needed to open the qxw and give as exact step by step recipe to reproduce the problem.
I.e. push ____ button, the led on apc is ___ color, than do ___ and color is ___ while it should be ___.

Jano

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enbyted2
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by enbyted2 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:31 pm

Hi,

I have the same issue.

So:
- Given you have connected Akai APC mini
- Given that you have set it as input and feedback
- Given that you set the proper profile for it

Case 1:
- Create a simple console with 1 button in toggle blackout mode (I used button 1-1)
- It will work as expected (light green/off then blackouut is on/off)

Case 2:
- Create 30 buttons or more each with different function
- Buttons won't light up

Case 3: (different issue but might be related)
- Create 30 buttons or more all with toggle blackout
- Only first 8 or 9 butons will be working as expected, others will either not work at all or light up and never turn off.

My machine:
- Ubuntu 16.10
- Kernel 4.8.0-30-generic
- QLC+ current GIT version (c18bc5fe7d4dafdbf88d2e44b7b153944ff72c26)

I attach my workspace and required fixture. It may have missing input profile - just select the default for Akai APC mini (i was messing around trying different values and such). Programmed buttons are 1-1 through 8-3 for functions + 1-8 for moving head testing. Slider 1 is submaster and 2 is moving head tilt offset.

I don't really understand Qt and QLC's architecture. I would love to help debug it but I won't have enough time this year to learn it. I have a show for New Years Eve and I would love to use QLC+ then. If somebody has any idea what might be causing this please let me know.
Attachments
test.qxw
(31.28 KiB) Downloaded 26 times
HIPERnet-Moving-Head.qxf
(3.39 KiB) Downloaded 21 times

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enbyted2
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by enbyted2 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:44 pm

I've been debugging it a little and it seems to be not a problem with QLC+ itself.
Using midisnoop I see that QLC is properly sending feedback values, APC mini is just not reacting to them...

Any ideas?

siegmund
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by siegmund » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:07 pm

enbyted2 wrote:I've been debugging it a little and it seems to be not a problem with QLC+ itself.
Using midisnoop I see that QLC is properly sending feedback values, APC mini is just not reacting to them...

Any ideas?
Maybe this is related to this issue: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6900&p=29106&hilit= ... ack#p29106
I also experienced the issue described in the thread above on my BCF 2000:
When using the mouse in vc to enable the scene by dragging the slider or clicking the button, everything is fine: The button on the BCF lights up red. But if I use the button on the BCF itself to activate the scene, I need to be very "fast": If the tapping of the button happens _really_ fast then it lights up (as expected), but if you push it a bit longer (respectively with a typical duration) the button does not light up (not as expected).
I guess this has to do with timing and some sort of internal feedback of the BCF. When releasing the button on the external control this forces to override the feedback given by QLC+. Maybe the following diagram illustrates the timing a bit. As you can see, on a normal duration of pressing the button, the button is released after QLC+ had send the feedback so the status of the LED gets overridden.

Button press . . . . . |+++++++++|
Internal feedback . . |+++++++++|
QLC MIDI IN . . . . . . |+++++++++|
QLC MIDI OUT (feedback) . ||
____________________________________ time >

I did not investigate the exact timing at all but it seems likely for me because as far as I know QLC+ always sends feedback only once after a change.

So if I got everything right there would be a few possibilities (if you are willing to fix this at all):
1) Send feedback continuously/periodically to external devices.
2) Delay sending of feedback a bit.
3) Send feedback twice (one as it is done now, one with a delay)

Don't know what would be best since 2+3 are a bit "hacky" and 1 will be a lot of work (and processing load).

Regards,
siegmund
Last edited by siegmund on Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mehovoric
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by Mehovoric » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:20 pm

siegmund wrote:
enbyted2 wrote:When using the mouse in vc to enable the scene by dragging the slider or clicking the button, everything is fine: The button on the BCF lights up red. But if I use the button on the BCF itself to activate the scene, I need to be very "fast": If the tapping of the button happens _really_ fast then it lights up (as expected), but if you push it a bit longer (respectively with a typical duration) the button does not light up (not as expected).
Holy crap! This explanation just helped me figure out whats wrong with my APC40 mk2!! Its the exact same issue. Little back story on my controller:

APC40 mk2 has 3 modes. I can get normal feedback to work fine on modes 1 and 2. I set a dim blue color for the lower value and a bright blue color for the upper value. The downside is these modes don't support "paged" knobs like Mode 0 does. In Mode 0, I have 9 different pages that control 8 physical knobs. In other words, I can actually control 72 different knobs natively. Super useful!

ANYWAYS: In Mode 0 is where I run into feedback issues on the pads. The lower feedback number works fine. However, when I toggle a button, it displays the upper value feedback only as long as I hold the button, and shuts off as soon as I release it. Like you said, if I use the mouse in VC it works as expected. And then I read your post and tried hitting it really fast like you suggested and it worked normally!! So this seems to be a definite issue. The interesting thing is that it only happens on toggle buttons. "Flash function" doesn't have an issue.

I have noticed with my APC40 Mk2 that in Mode 0, if I press any pad button, it flashes it's own feedback (even when not connected to QLC+). As long as I'm holding the button down, its always green (so long as i don't have QLC feedback assigned to it. If I do, that feedback works normally). So I'm wondering if like you pointed out, that is somehow overriding what QLC sends, or it's just bad timing and QLC sends its feedback message before the APC finishes it's own internal note-off message? And I wonder if there is some sort of timing difference on feedback for the Flash vs Toggle?

Hope that makes sense! haha

siegmund
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Re: Akaii APC Mini

Post by siegmund » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:09 am

I'm glad that helped you to investigate. Just now I realized that the diagram got messed up so I somehow tried to fixed it.
Mehovoric wrote:And I wonder if there is some sort of timing difference on feedback for the Flash vs Toggle?
I don't think there is a difference in the internal timing for flash vs toggle but it's the system in general. So when you use the button as a flash button the internal/external feedback messages do not differ: When you push the button, the internal feedback tells the LED to turn on and a short time after that QLC tells the LED to turn on as well. As soon as you release the button, the internal feedback tells the LED to turn off and a short time after that QLC tells the LED again to turn off. So there is no conflict in the messages.

So you do not have an option to change this behavior on your external controller?

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