Prepare/Go option for frames

Request a feature that you would like to see in QLC+.
Explain in details why you would need it and which is your usage case.
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:48 pm
Real Name: Diego Fantoma

Prepare/Go option for frames

Post by fantoma » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:59 pm

Hi everybody and thanks to the developers of QLC+ and you all

For a show I need to "prepare" a scene depending on what is happening on stage and then to have a "go" way to switch from the current scene to the prepared one.

For now I'm testing a setup with a "running" set of scenes and a clone for the "prepared" scenes, as in the example file attached,
I use the same external control for both the submasters while setting the reverse mode on the second frame.

This approach has two drawbacks:
- I need to clone a huge list of scenes and it's sometimes hard to remember to change both the copies of a scene when modifications are needed;
- It's very difficult the have a smart view of wich frame is active

Is there a way for create something similar using a single set of scenes?

Thank you in advance
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Real Name: Fredje Gallon

Re: Prepare/Go option for frames

Post by GGGss » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:27 am

First off ... you don't have to copy your scenes... they can be used in multiple frames. That settles your first problem.
Second - have you already seen (with your eyes) what is going to happen on stage when you dim from submaster 1 to submaster 2 ... I'm quit sure this is not going to look so pretty. (f.i. going from your green scene to the blue one will give you an ugly harsh light blue) IMHO it's better to use a nice dimming or if your play demands it a snap to the next colour.
And in reality it's most uncommon to use one external controller channel to control 2 submasters (of which one is inversed)...

Are you programming a show for a play or a dance performance?
All electric machines work on smoke... when the smoke escapes... they don't work anymore

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Real Name: Diego Fantoma

Re: Prepare/Go option for frames

Post by fantoma » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:17 pm

Try to figure out the following setup:

I have a "red background" scene and a "blue background" one (I'll never use a green scene since it hurts you when fading from the red one)
I put the scenes buttons twice, in two different frames (frame1-red, frame 1-blue, frame2-red, frame2-blue)
I select red on the frame1 and set to 100% the fader1, then I have to prepare the next color for the background: I press the Blue button on the frame2, still having the fader2 set to 0.
Since the recalled scene is the same, the blue scene will be immediately switched also on the frame1 (running)

Don't be aware of the mixed colour fading problem nor about the kind of show I'm programming: this is a technical question and the file I have attached is just for testing/explaination purposes.

thank you

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Re: Prepare/Go option for frames

Post by camwolfe » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:42 pm

I have been using fantomas approach in quite some shows now and would love to see some feature similar to requested implemented.
(Sorry for my english, if I seem rude or overly forward, I just dont know how to say things more politely.)

I think the possibility to switch or fade between two frames would be extremely useful for flexible live shows, like parties with a DJ or live
bands that like to improvise. With these shows, it is possible to prepare effects 10 seconds, maybe 30secs before u want to use them, but not at the time you do the programming for a show. With more fixture groups and more complex combinations of effects, a dedicated new feature would be awesome.

So I like to have two sets of multiple similar effects. This results in scenes and chasers split between two "banks". Each "bank" is grouped inside a frame. Each frame is controlled by a submaster (one is inverted to give you a crossfade behaviour). Attached to a controller input they give me the ability to switch between one comination of scenes and chasers on bank A and one similar set on bank B. I do not use these for slow crossfades (would usually look very ugly), but for fast switches.

Problems of this approach are:
- as fantoma already mentioned, you have to copy a lot of stuff (Using the same scenes and chasers does not work as intended)
- this results in increased workspace size (might affect performance)
(- it does not work for collections. In QLC+ 4.10 there was a hacky workaround to make collections work, but it uses what might be a bug rather than a feature.)
- it does not work for LTP channels since submasters can not affect these. You could force HTP on the channels you want to use, but there are good reasons one actually wants to use LTP :)
- while it is possible to implement this for two banks with a bit of thought, it becomes be really painful for three banks (I have done this recently, but again, it is hacky and sometimes buggy)
- slow crossfades can (or should) not be done since the mixture would be a mess. Special functionality could maybe solve that

If other users of QLC+ are interested to see this functionality, I would ask you to join the discussion. I am happy to provide workspaces in which I made use of my workarounds and other experiences from this, so we can work out an idea how this could be implemented the best.

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Real Name: Filip

Re: Prepare/Go option for frames

Post by filipek.o » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:19 am

Hey I have really similar problem but my idea was not using 2 frames, but speeddial, when before you click a new set of scenes u put speed dial controlling fade in, set into infinity. So when you click new scenes they don't fade, and when you are ready to set setspeedial fade into for exapmple 1s. But unfortunately it doesn't work as you can't change a speed dial fade time on fly:(

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Location: Germany
Real Name: Lukas

Re: Prepare/Go option for frames

Post by siegmund » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:38 pm

I would consider this feature pretty helpful, too.
One way to implement this could be to introduce another state of frames, something like "suspended". As soon as a frame is going from suspended to active state (not disabled) all the activated functions are fired.
This will have major implications and brings up some UI problems as well, for example: How to distinguish functions that are prepared but not live yet from functions that are already live?
In addition to that, I think the effort needed to implement this will be very huge.

Anyway, having something like this would be great..

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Re: Prepare/Go option for frames

Post by camwolfe » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:01 pm

For the UI implications: Maybe another border-color code (like violet) could be used for that? For the underlying logic, maybe you could have something similar to what "double-buffering" does in video applications: Every function start and end is recorded, then, when you relive/activate/flush the frame, all the changes are played back to the (as I understood) list of qlc's running functions.
(Just wanted to add: I also like the idea with the speeddials.)

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