Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Request a feature that you would like to see in QLC+.
Explain in details why you would need it and which is your usage case.
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mlohrey
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Real Name: Mark Lohrey

Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by mlohrey » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:23 am

Sounds exciting. Looking forward to testing it. Thanks for your work!

Baer
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by Baer » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:42 pm

Just commited a prototype on my git repository: https://github.com/mgubisch/qlcplus/
feel free to check out an try
unfortunately you have to build it from source currently, but I don't want to create packages for prototypes
If you need any help let my know


The folliwng is included
- Working Protype with Overwriting working as expeced
- Can be enabled and disabled via Button
- Fix for HTP return to zero Problem in Monitor Mode

Known Issues
- On Override Disable the slider does not fade
- Override Button not accesable via external control
- Unhandled if two Sliders are going to override the same channel

Didn't also take care about cosmtic things like sizes and colors, just the mechanism currently

siegmund
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Real Name: Lukas

Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by siegmund » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:07 pm

Hi Baer,
thank you very much for you work. I just tested your version and unfortunately it did not work exactly the way I expect.
Basically I would sum up the things happening in two issues:

1) The monitoring feature only works for upwards adjustment.
Please have a look at the attached workspace. The RGB sliders on the left control RGB scenes. The RGB sliders on the right are our new ones (with monitoring enabled).
Move one slider on the left upwards, the corresponding slider on the right follows this movement (as expected).
Move the slider on the left downwards, and the corresponding slider on the left will not follow this movement (not as expected).

2) When deactivating "OVR", the slider should go back to the value applied by the scenes.
Again, this only occurs if the monitoring slider is above the value of the scene.
So set the scene to say 50, press OVR on the monitoring slider and move it to 100. Press OVR again (deactivate it) and the slider should go back to 50, but it stays at 100.

Hope this is clear enough though. If not, just ask and I'll try to clarify!

Again thanks for your work, this already looks very nice! :)

Regards,
siegmund
Attachments
OVR test.qxw
(6.44 KiB) Downloaded 42 times

janosvitok
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by janosvitok » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:14 pm

For others that want to try this change: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/mcalleg ... /artifacts contains automated test build for windows.

mlohrey
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by mlohrey » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:29 am

I was able to try siegmund's test work space on Mac OSX. I managed to build a version from the source, a first for me. :D

Just to add my findings, the new slider, when monitoring, also overrides the scene if moved upward without the OVR button being pushed. This shouldn't happen.

I am assuming that the new slider type will be able to be selected from the slider properties as an option?

Thanks for the work on this, it is looking promising.

Baer
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by Baer » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:51 am

siegmund wrote: 1) The monitoring feature only works for upwards adjustment.
Please have a look at the attached workspace. The RGB sliders on the left control RGB scenes. The RGB sliders on the right are our new ones (with monitoring enabled).
Move one slider on the left upwards, the corresponding slider on the right follows this movement (as expected).
Move the slider on the left downwards, and the corresponding slider on the left will not follow this movement (not as expected).
Thanks for the hint, haven't seen this issue yet, will try your workspace as soon as possible
siegmund wrote: 2) When deactivating "OVR", the slider should go back to the value applied by the scenes.
Again, this only occurs if the monitoring slider is above the value of the scene.
So set the scene to say 50, press OVR on the monitoring slider and move it to 100. Press OVR again (deactivate it) and the slider should go back to 50, but it stays at 100.
This one i know, just forgott to mention on the known issues, should be fixed by end of this week.
mlohrey wrote: Just to add my findings, the new slider, when monitoring, also overrides the scene if moved upward without the OVR button being pushed. This shouldn't happen.
Hmm ok, this is from my point of view normal HTP behaviour, so just as i would expect such a slider to work. Am i totally wrong here?
This is quite different to the old behaviour, because formerly in monitor mode the slider always returned to 0 without a scene or to the scenevalue.
With change of execution order the monitored slider behaves now for HTP mode as one would expect, so upwards you can overwrite your scene value always.
If you set a new scene the slider should be jump to the new scenes value. At least it did in my testcase, hopefully I haven't destroyed something here.
In OVR mode you can control the channel absolutly in both directions.
mlohrey wrote: I am assuming that the new slider type will be able to be selected from the slider properties as an option?
This is not implemented, but should be no big deal do enable/disable this via level mode slider properties

I have one more behavoiur detail to discuss:
If two of the new sliders try to control the same channel, should there be exclusivle one slider to control, or shall we use normal HTP/LTP behaviour for this?
From implementation site i would prefere HTP/LTP behaviour, because this is much easier to implement.

siegmund
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by siegmund » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:57 am

Baer wrote: mlohrey hat geschrieben:
Just to add my findings, the new slider, when monitoring, also overrides the scene if moved upward without the OVR button being pushed. This shouldn't happen.
Hmm ok, this is from my point of view normal HTP behaviour, so just as i would expect such a slider to work. Am i totally wrong here?
I think this is a controversial issue. But I tend to say just leave it as it is, so to have HTP behavior. Because otherwise either the monitoring slider could not be moved away from the current level until OVR is activated or it simply has no effect if moved away from the current level.
Nevertheless we really should discuss this.
@mlohrey Do you have an example where you need the behavior described by you?
Baer wrote:If you set a new scene the slider should be jump to the new scenes value. At least it did in my testcase, hopefully I haven't destroyed something here.
Not always - as mentioned in issue #1 this only works when adjusting upwards.
Baer wrote:I have one more behavoiur detail to discuss:
If two of the new sliders try to control the same channel, should there be exclusivle one slider to control, or shall we use normal HTP/LTP behaviour for this?
From implementation site i would prefere HTP/LTP behaviour, because this is much easier to implement.
I would say use HTP/LTP behavior. Not only from the implementation point of view, but also for less confusion. Because otherwise we need to deactivate OVR on all other overriding sliders, this is probably not what the operator might want.
In addition to that, an overriding slider is not meant to be overridden again...

Baer
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by Baer » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:09 am

siegmund wrote:In addition to that, an overriding slider is not meant to be overridden again...
Thats the intended usage yes.
But to prevent this, tell the user that he did something wrong aso is difficult to implement and huge effort.
Without preventing this we need some definied behaviour and there i would suggest normal HTP/LTP for all sliders with active override.
siegmund wrote:Not always - as mentioned in issue #1 this only works when adjusting upwards.
Will check this, in my orignial version where i changed to monitor slider behavoir (without the changes for override) the behaviour was the following:
LTP mode has not changed due to the former implementation
HTP mode: You can only move the slider upwards, if you try to get below the Scene it sticks to scene value. This seems to be correct behaviour.
Because of HTP output value can't be below Scene value, so monitored Slider also can't be below Scene value.
On changing scene slider changed to new Scene value and you can again alter between Scene value and Max value, but not below Scene Value. Thats what the override implementation will be for...

siegmund
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by siegmund » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:36 am

Baer wrote: siegmund hat geschrieben:
In addition to that, an overriding slider is not meant to be overridden again...


Thats the intended usage yes.
But to prevent this, tell the user that he did something wrong aso is difficult to implement and huge effort.
Without preventing this we need some definied behaviour and there i would suggest normal HTP/LTP for all sliders with active override.
I'm completely with you on this.
Baer wrote:HTP mode: You can only move the slider upwards, if you try to get below the Scene it sticks to scene value. This seems to be correct behaviour.
Because of HTP output value can't be below Scene value, so monitored Slider also can't be below Scene value.
On changing scene slider changed to new Scene value and you can again alter between Scene value and Max value, but not below Scene Value. Thats what the override implementation will be for...
Again, all you said is right and working. What is not working is the monitoring feature itself. As soon as you pull the scene slider downwards, the monitoring slider goes not down with it.

mlohrey
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by mlohrey » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:10 am

Baer wrote:
Hmm ok, this is from my point of view normal HTP behaviour, so just as i would expect such a slider to work. Am i totally wrong here?
This is quite different to the old behaviour, because formerly in monitor mode the slider always returned to 0 without a scene or to the scenevalue.
With change of execution order the monitored slider behaves now for HTP mode as one would expect, so upwards you can overwrite your scene value always.
If you set a new scene the slider should be jump to the new scenes value. At least it did in my testcase, hopefully I haven't destroyed something here.
In OVR mode you can control the channel absolutly in both directions.
No, you are right, I just explained the situation badly.

When in the usual slider monitoring mode, it is not possible to adjust the slider at all. I expected to that to overcome this you would need to push the OVR button This would release the slider from monitoring to being able to override the monitored value up or down.

I think it is important to know when the slider is over riding the scene value up or down and the user should have to choose to override the scene. Or as discussed before, if the slider is moved up or down, it assumes the user has taken control and changes to red to indicate this.

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