Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Request a feature that you would like to see in QLC+.
Explain in details why you would need it and which is your usage case.
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Baer
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by Baer » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:48 am

Just pushed a new version to my git repository

Slider got two Buttons (a Reset and an EnableAutoReset)

As long as the slider wasn't moved it follows always the scenes value
You can always move the slider away from the scene an override the scene
With reset Button slider is set back to current scene value
With enable Auto reset the override is only active as long as scene value does not change

Hope I'm close enough to what you all hoped for.
Happy testing and let me know any bugs you find.

Additonally: It would be really great if someone can test this click&go stuff for me, because I have never used I can't really tell if everything is working fine.

Next steps will be:
-> Show current Scene Value
-> Add some Visual feedback
-> Make buttons controlable by external control
siegmund wrote:I'm absolutely okay with it. I assume sliders, which are not controlled by any scene at the moment just do not turn red/indicate control.
Would be happy to make this work, but currently I haven't figured out how to determine if the original zero cames from a szene or from unused :( So maybe every slider who took controll over the channel (regardless if from scene or noone) seems do get the visual feedback

shortylight
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by shortylight » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:22 pm

Hi Bear,

I just compiled the new version for Windows and it looks very promising. All the tests I did showed the expected behavior. As far as I know the click & go feature everything is doing well. Great work!
Will you also add a switch to the preferences to enable both reset button separately for each fader in the next step?

siegmund
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by siegmund » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:15 pm

Because I'm away at the moment I'll test this on Sunday - still sounds very good to me.
Baer wrote:Would be happy to make this work, but currently I haven't figured out how to determine if the original zero cames from a szene or from unused :( So maybe every slider who took controll over the channel (regardless if from scene or noone) seems do get the visual feedback
Okay, don't mind. Due to the fact, that this slider somehow is in control over the channel and the value before was 0 this is somehow correct.
shortylight wrote:Will you also add a switch to the preferences to enable both reset button separately for each fader in the next step?
I'll back this, too, but maybe in a different way so we have at most one button at the slider (more is a bit too much I think) and you can select the behavior in the preferences.

For now, have great holidays :)

shortylight
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by shortylight » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:16 am

Hi,

just a remark: The monitor feature of QLC+ does not have any impact on the slider's behavior at the moment. The slider follows always the channel value regardless if the checkbox in the preferences is set or not.

Have a nice day.

Baer
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by Baer » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:29 pm

shortylight wrote:Will you also add a switch to the preferences to enable both reset button separately for each fader in the next step?
I haven't decided how to activate the functionality in the final version. For testing just the two buttons where the fastest version.
Will think about it when I'm back.
shortylight wrote:just a remark: The monitor feature of QLC+ does not have any impact on the slider's behavior at the moment. The slider follows always the channel value regardless if the checkbox in the preferences is set or not.
I'm aware of this, this is another point of discussion, and one where we should take Massimo and/or Jano into the loop.

The functionality is more or less a rewrite of the LevelModeSliders behaviour. There the monitoring feature is mandatory to work for the implementation.
We have either the possibiltiy to drop the option for monitoring and have it always on, or i can copy back the whole old functionality, and one can select in the preferences to use the old or the new version.

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mcallegari
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by mcallegari » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:52 am

Alright, jumping in. To be honest, I haven't read every single word of this long discussion, but in general, to face a technical change in a software (and before writing a single line of code) the questions that need to be answered are:

1) the motivations - why do we need a change ? What is not working at the moment ?
2) the goal - what is that we want to achieve ? How will users interact with the change ? Does it preserve backward compatibility ?
3) the feasibility - is it even possible to reach the goal ? What is the impact of the change on the code ?
(normally there should be a 4) the timings, but we're not in a hurry, are we ? :) )

I would like someone (Baer ?) to please summarize this discussion and answer the questions above. If the discussion is still ongoing, then please carry on with it, until you agree on something that makes everybody happy.
Then I can offer my help and knowledge of the code to comment on #3 and eventually go into the techy bits of the code. I believe David can comment too if he's reading this discussion, since he's the one who implemented the slider monitoring.
Also, I would like to remind everyone that the VC Slider monitoring feature is still marked as EXPERIMENTAL, as indicated in the documentation.
The reason is simple: a VC slider in level mode can control several channels, and each channel can have a different value at runtime. Therefore it is impossible to represent multiple levels with a single slider. There is no escape from this limitation.

plugz
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by plugz » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:06 am

mcallegari wrote:I believe David can comment too if he's reading this discussion, since he's the one who implemented the slider monitoring.
I believe you're the one who implemented this behavior :)

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mcallegari
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by mcallegari » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:21 am

plugz wrote:
mcallegari wrote:I believe David can comment too if he's reading this discussion, since he's the one who implemented the slider monitoring.
I believe you're the one who implemented this behavior :)
Really ? :shock:
I remember you posting an animated GIF of something and I got confused with this !
In fact, searching for it, it was solo frame mixing: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8624&p=37833#p37826
I totally am getting too old for this... :cry:

Baer
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by Baer » Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:12 pm

Hi Massimo

since I'm currently away (till next weeks sundy) I will give only a short answer, maybe one of the other guyes can give a longer summary, otherwise i will do it if when I'm back.

1. The motivation was to be able to overwrite a scenes value (similar to simple desk sliders) with a level mode slider in monitor mode (+ some cosmetics and behaviour options). Also the monitoing feature has some other drawbacks. (e.g. you are not able to control a monitored channel in HTP mode...)

2. The goal to achieve we summarized on one of the postst (think siegmund was it), difficult to find on phone and currently no access to pc.

For 3. I implemented some kind of prototype on my personal fork of qlc+ ( https://github.com/mgubisch/qlcplus/ ) if you wan't to have a look
The prototype has currently the follwing behaviour (all somehow experimentel, but looks functional from first brief tests)
As long as the slider isn't moved it follows always the scenes value
You can always move the slider away from the scene an override the scene
With reset Button slider is set back to current scene value
With enable Auto reset the override is only active as long as scene value does not change

In the current implementation backwards compatiblity is somehow destroyed. Due to the fact that slider always follews the scene i will not act like a normal HTP slider anymore. But I think I found a solution for this yesterdays evening, where you can even switch of the monitoring.
Therefore backwards compatiblity for not monitored channel should be there, but for monitored channel the behaviour changed in the way described above.

4. I'm not in a hurry (but i can always use my personal branch) for the other guyes I don't know, but due to my limited freetime I think the earliest getting something releaseable is during christmas holidays.


Currently the final usability/user interaction is still in discussion, because first we wan't to check the feasability

Ok that was longer then inteded but more in about one week...

mlohrey
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Re: Sliders in VC should be able to act like Simple Desk sliders, i.e. overriding the current cue level

Post by mlohrey » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:20 am

If I could add to
1. Motivation
What is not working at the moment?
For live theatre work it is very difficult to make a quick change to a Scene. It may be that a single spot light is too bright and just needs to be adjusted down. I think that those interested in the improved feature, set up VC to mimic a traditional desk, with sliders for each channel. Being able to see the levels for the active scene and then make a quick adjustment is a powerful feature. This can be achieved in other ways it is just too slow.
Massimo said: The reason is simple: a VC slider in level mode can control several channels, and each channel can have a different value at runtime. Therefore it is impossible to represent multiple levels with a single slider. There is no escape from this limitation.
I have thought about this for a day or two.
I don't think it impossible to represent multiple levels with a single slider. :D
If I could use the analogy of different properties of drawing objects in a drawing program. Let's say you have a square and circle drawn with different line thickness and then select both. In the line properties dialogue it will not be able to display the line thickness as they are both different. Many pieces of software display this conflict with a '?' or just blank. Then, if you then choose a line thickness it is applied to both.

Now, I don't have any understanding of the programming, but if the slider (controlling more than one channel) in monitoring mode could indicate somehow that the levels it was monitoring are different then it would be a visual indication to the operator in that if you adjust the slider then all channels would be set to the same level. This would be analogous to making the objects in my example above all have the same line thickness.

What the visual representation would be I am not sure. This might work
slider_with multiple levels.png
slider_with multiple levels.png (3.08 KiB) Viewed 361 times

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